Ask HN: What can I do to acquire more freelancing projects/clients?

Hi HN,

I'm a game designer and programmer who recently started his own business. I was off to a rocky start but thanks to a blog post on gamasutra that ended up on HN I managed to reach my sales goal and I'm in the clear for the next 6 months. The problem is, I don't want to repeat the previous mistake and, although I have another game in the works and 2 more updates ready to ship for the first game, I'm looking to extend my savings and not have to bank on the next projects having the same luck.

I've setup an account on Upwork and have applied to more than 40 projects over the course of 1.5 months. I finally scored a quick 5$ job on translating a couple hundred phrases to another language. I have listed all the projects I worked on, quite a few of them being big titles (like The Dark Knight Rises, N.O.V.A 3, Frozen). I also listed the ones I developed myself as an indie and I have my credentials and LinkedIn listed as well.

I targeted projects related to my skills and experience with solid referrals and examples but I never seem to get the job. I lowered my hourly rate to 15$ / h and I still can't win any projects.

Any chance I can get some tips from people with more experience than me on freelancing? Or do you know any better place where I can find gigs related to programming (Lua, C#) or Game Development? Heck, I'd even take article writing since I like doing that and it would surely help me keep the lights on for longer.

Thanks!

Edit: I have been making games professionally since 2010 and even worked in fields related to Home Automation to save money for my own business.

53 points | by BacioiuC 2326 days ago

12 comments

  • startupdiscuss 2326 days ago
    Here are my main tips:

    Pick a niche. This is key. You may be the best programmer in the world, but people won't know whom to pick. You might be the best game programmer, but there are many others. However, if you pitch yourself as the expert in getting html games to perform smoothly with poor connectivity, then people with that problem know exactly whom to pick.

    For this to be effective: Don't pick too broad a niche.

    You can pick the niche based on data -- which if your skills is most in demand, pays the most, has the most wanted posts and so on.

    Make sure your whole profile is geared to promoting your prowess in the niche.

    Did I mention, pick a niche?

    Once you have a niche, you can expand to adjacent niches.

    Oh, and don't underprice yourself. The price is a signal of quality so only go as low (if you must) as the market average but no lower for your niche.

    • muzani 2326 days ago
      +1 to not underpricing yourself. At the lower prices, you will get a lot of low quality clients. If the problem is big enough, they're willing to pay.
    • pan69 2326 days ago
      Any tips on how to find your market average?
      • muzani 2326 days ago
        Global rates for software developers are roughly about $25-$100 an hour. $100/hour is more for people with specialist experience in the US time zone. There are people willing to go cheaper than $25/hour, but you'll be a blur among people who are willing to work fo $4/hour.

        But usually there are local rates as well based on your country. These are somewhat pegged to the international rates past a certain level of quality. These can be lower than international rates.

        Sometimes you can squeeze an even higher price out of a local contract because you'd add the benefit of more strongly understanding the problem, better communication in terms of time zone, language, and face to face interaction. Plus there's some security in meeting a person face to face.

        • odonnellryan 2326 days ago
          It is not uncommon to charge $125-150/hr for high-end work on something as basic as configuring Wordpress sites.

          However, high-end means the focus gets drastically shifted from programming to figuring out what the client wants.

          That said, you can charge 250-500 as a freelancer for a few hours of consultation. Your rates should largely depend on:

          1) How many hours the client intends on spending with you 2) Urgency of work (and thus how much bandwidth you need to give to it) 3) Client's ROI

          If you save your client 1000 hrs of reporting work a year by developing them a custom solution, that is easily worth well over 100,000k for that client: even if they are only paying people $50/hr to create these reports.

          You can't charge 100,000k, otherwise the client will not have a great ROI. However, such a solution should take you somewhere around 100-400 hours to complete.

          That works out to $125/hr in the worst-case, giving the client a good ROI after the first six months, and should give you a solid 4-6 months of work. If they need it sooner you need to charge them more, because you'll spend less time on business development.

          This is a perfect world hypothetical of course ... in reality many other things come into play that will only work to drive your rates down.

          • djellybeans 2325 days ago
            How do you maintain good conversion rates for charging as much as how you stated (such as your Wordpress example)? You run the risk of getting no offers. I think the difficult part about charging $125-150/hr, if you have never charged that much, is finding the clients that are used to paying those kinds of prices. You'll have to figure out how to convert talks into sales better before you can charge those prices.

            For instance, the person who would want a site for $50/hr is probably not going to pay $125/hr. You could try with that person, but that would be pushing your luck. In this case they're not the right client for you.

            • odonnellryan 2325 days ago
              It comes down to not wanting to do WP work, so I charge a lot when someone wants it.

              Sometimes I give it away ... for a client that is giving me a lot of business.

              However, you can charge what is 150/hr for WP work if you have a good reputation and do good work. Literally EVERYONE who has any kind of money runs a charity, or is involved in a business or seven that needs a new homepage ...

              This won't work if you're trying to cold call and get clients, you're right.

              I started out at 50-70/hr programming. Some of my contracts now are only ~90/hr.

            • muzani 2324 days ago
              Also, it's about how long the projects take. Sometimes $150/hr for Wordpress might just be done in a couple hours, with a template and an upload.
          • hanniabu 2324 days ago
            > If you save your client 1000 hrs of reporting work a year by developing them a custom solution, that is easily worth well over 100,000k for that client...

            How do you get this information? Do you ask them how much time is spent on this task per person and their average hourly rate? Or do you go about finding this info out another way? Do you usually prepare a confidentiality agreement to discuss this? How do you bring it up without coming off so blunt?(as in not making it seem like you're using these numbers to figure out how much you can charge them)

  • chrisabrams 2326 days ago
    When starting from scratch: post on Freelancer Seeking Freelance every month.

    You'll reach a groove once 120% of your referrals are word of mouth. The pendulum flips quickly between looking for clients and then getting a good rep. for doing good work and the clients flowing to you. Good work is hard to find.

    With that said, don't negotiate for the highest rate possible at the start. Getting a good rep. will get you better paying clients a lot faster.

    • blisterpeanuts 2326 days ago
      Can you explain "post on Freelancer Seeking Freelance every month" -- are you referring to freelancer.com? Is there a general "seeking freelance" feature to that website? In my experience, you have to apply to specific jobs. And the chances of getting any of them are extremely low, at least in my experience; it seems to be dominated by Indian and other 3rd world folks eager to build up their skills while working for pennies.
    • hanniabu 2324 days ago
      If you start out at a lower rate to build a good rep, how do you transition to a higher rate? If someone is referred to you from a previous client, I would think that a rate is shared and so they already have a number in mind for what you charge. Also, what about for recurring clients. If you gave them a better rate in the past and you have now bumped up your rate, do you honor your past rate or do you give them your new rate. For argument sake, let's assume this is not super frequent client that gives you stability, but maybe 15hrs of work every 3 months.
    • ricksharp 2326 days ago
      Does Freelancer seeking Freelancer actually work to find high paying contracts?
      • chrisabrams 2325 days ago
        We've hired two freelancers from there. Only place I go now to find quality engineers.
      • jf22 2326 days ago
        Yes.
        • ricksharp 2326 days ago
          Did they come to you after you posted there, or did you go to them seeing their "Seeking Freelancer" listing?
          • ioddly 2325 days ago
            I recommend doing both. It also pays (literally) to check the normal "who's hiring" thread as companies sometimes post contract opportunities there instead of in the freelancer thread.
  • anon1094 2326 days ago
    I've been freelancing remotely as a front-end web developer for over 3 years now. Here's my advice:

    1. Get off of Upwork, now. You're only getting into a bidding war with low-priced overseas developers.

    2. Instead, search remote job boards, Twitter, Facebook Groups, and LinkedIn for freelance remote contracts related to your field.

    3. Find the client's email and send them your portfolio directly.

    Following this strategy is what has landed me the most freelance gigs these past years.

    There's also aggregation newsletters like RemoteLeads that send you remote freelance gigs a few times a week directly to your email.

    https://remoteleads.io/

    Shameless Plug: I started RemoteLeads to make finding remote front-end freelance leads easier for myself.

    • mdekkers 2325 days ago
      Get off of Upwork, now. You're only getting into a bidding war with low-priced overseas developers.

      As an ex frequent buyer on Upwork I can confirm, that place is the pits.

    • ricksharp 2326 days ago
      Does this actually work?

      Where do you find Remote jobs on Twitter, Facebook, or LinkedIn?

      • ishanjain28 2323 days ago
        2 Engineers from Microsoft Azure team tweeted about lots of work opportunities yesterday. It was quite interesting. They were looking for Junior/Senior devs writing Go, Rust, JS, PHP, Python and a few more languages.
      • anon1094 2326 days ago
        Yes, the next email is going out in a few hours. The next one after that on Thursday morning eastern time.

        Various sources are scraped to find remote jobs and freelance gigs specific to front-end web development. I go through them manually after I've found them and only send the best 5 max.

        • ricksharp 2326 days ago
          Well naturally you have to keep the good leads for yourself ;)

          Anyway, I'm a full stack developer so what about the back end stuff or mobile app development?

          I'm interested in knowing where you source your leads so I might be able to find contracts in those areas.

          Right now, I've only been able to find stuff through UW, so I'm curious that you've been able to find direct clients.

  • bshimmin 2326 days ago
    I was off to a rocky start but thanks to a blog post on gamasutra that ended up on HN I managed to reach my sales goal and I'm in the clear for the next 6 months.

    I guess the shrewd commenters who said this piece https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ConstantinBacioiu/20171121/3... was actually something of a subtle sales technique were pretty much spot on!

    • BacioiuC 2326 days ago
      It wasn't really, but I'm not gonna lie and say I'm not happy it turned out the way it did.
    • niko001 2326 days ago
      Guess what the goal of the current post is ;-)
  • benAO90 2324 days ago
    Looks like you've gotten some helpful tips so far. Here's a few things I can add.

    As far as marketing yourself as niche vs. a generalist developer, it really depends on the types of clients and projects you are looking to work on. Being a generalist means you will qualify for more projects, and probably can create extra work for yourself since you can help clients with a broader range of development tasks. This will be useful if you want to help clients build and scale a product. Niche skills on the other hand means more niche marketability and searchability for clients looking for those specific skills.

    When it comes to marketing yourself....keep blogging! Even if its only for 15 mins a day, write something. Share what you've been doing, answer questions for potential clients and other developers. You've already seen the pay off. Netowrk, online and off. Go to events and conferences, share your work and interests. Personal connections still count for a lot, and have a stronger tendency to lead to referrals.

    Lastly, don't forget, as freelancer you are your own business. Some freelance platforms will take care of a lot of business aspects for you, but you still should be prepared/ knowledgeable about the following: -Terms of Service Contract -Your own (favorable) NDA -Time Tracking/Invoicing Software - Regular Review of Your Rate

    Here's an article I wrote on landing clients as a freelance dev: https://www.codementor.io/blog/land-clients-freelance-develo...

  • hungerstrike 2326 days ago
    Get on Shapr. I just started using it and I've made quite a few connections.
    • ricksharp 2326 days ago
      How do you make clients on Shapr? It sounds like it's more about peer networking.
      • hungerstrike 2325 days ago
        I connected with a few guys who run consulting shops, who outsource skills that they don't have in-house. Also, some recruiters who can get me contracts with big city corps. I've also gotten in touch with 2 startup founders who are looking for a CTO.
        • ricksharp 2324 days ago
          Nice. I'm giving it a go now. I met a few guys who could be friends but no clients yet, but I see the potential there.
  • JSeymourATL 2326 days ago
    What does an ideal target project/client look like?

    If you can answer this-- you can direct your own proactive business development campaign. On this subject, Mike Weinberg is brilliant > https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15863998-new-sales-simpl...

  • potta_coffee 2324 days ago
    Upwork is terrible. All of my work comes through personal contacts and relationships. IMO you've got to find a way to grow your network, be that meetups, events, etc. Get creative. It sounds like you have a lot of skill in your domain, maybe you could do a lecture somewhere and meet people that way. Relationships have a tendency of naturally generating work.
  • saluki 2326 days ago
    y, you're going to have problems getting viable projects on Upwork.

    The best projects with reasonable pay will come from your own network, people you know. So focus on networking following up with old contacts/making new ones.

    Reach out to the game dev community, get in contact with podcasts, write articles, get involved with the community.

    • throwawaypro 2326 days ago
      I don't agree here. Upwork is one way to manifest that network.
  • VirgilShelton 2326 days ago
    You worked on The Dark Knight Risers, and Frozen? Details please?
    • BacioiuC 2326 days ago
      TDKR back when I was with Gameloft, Frozen Free Fall at Mobility-Games as a designer and programmer.
  • throwawaypro 2326 days ago
    Hey friend!

    Congrats on your experience, journey, and step into the 'unknown.'

    My father always said, work hard son. When you work hard, and are active and intentional, results will occur.

    Upwork for me took a 6-12 months to develop into something that was generating leads for ME. In other words, people were inquiring me for work versus applying.

    With that said, I am active on Github, my site is template based Jekyll and consistent with my niche in Web/Tech, I have a nice looking portfolio (play up those BIG NAMES).

    ALSO: Work with a recruiter and get ALL of the feedback on how you interview, and integrate all that into your pitch. For example, they rewrote my 'resume' which is now a portfolio and CV.

    ALSO: Be on the active hunt for employment. Being hungry AND being challenged will sharpen your blade even more and when you pitch your customers you will be that much better off.

    ALSO: Someone to talk to in a similar job because teaching is learning in reverse.

    ALSO: Volunteer your skills, again more challenge, more experience, more resume.

    You pretty much have to (((PROVE))) to people that you are the hardest working best choice. And you are. But you have like 5-seconds and then some to 'prove' that.

    Good luck friend!!!!

  • thatsheelpatel 2326 days ago
    As already said, pick a niche, and make sure you're known for it. Generate content in that area, you're a game designer, so blog about the issues you've faced, how you've overcome hurdles. If blogging isn't for you, create a podcast, just create content in whatever medium you're most passionate about and do something that makes you a thought leader in that space.

    When someone is searching for a solution to an existing problem they face and you can demonstrate how you've solved it, and many more in that domain you're immediately valuable.