ISP perspective: a shitload of people are using Huawei and/or ZTE for GPON networks now. I am at lot less scared of that for last mile access stuff, than I am of people who think it's actually a good idea to use Huawei or ZTE as core routers for major ASes (in the same places you would see a twin $250,000 pair of Cisco or Juniper modular chassis based routers).
They say that in the article: "In close collaboration with Huawei we have customized Bahnhof’s powerful 10 Gbit/s router HN8255WS, and it’s finally ready to put up for sale."
AT&T is not a company that's effectively a government arm. They may have a cozy relationship, but it's a major difference.
Also, you have some expectation that a company such as AT&T will respect intellectual property. US offers strong protections there.
USI in Minnesota (US) has been doing it for over a year. They launched 2.5gbit and 5gbit options back at the start of 2016. Granted, their coverage map is a tiny fraction of Minneapolis.
> It's not true 10Gbit. It's only 10Gbit to some pole and then it is shared.
As opposed to a dedicated direct 10 gigabit line to every other internet device? Everything is always shared unless you request a dedicated circuit between a given set of points. Sometimes the over subscription ratio is just shit, which is a real thing to complain about.
In Switzerland other fiber providers (such as Init7) have a dedicated physical fiber strand to your premises and a dedicated 1Gbit port on the other side.
Salt uses 10G-PON, which as I understand it splits a single 10Gbit port. Salt's configured to split it 64 ways.
It's possible other providers are oversubscribed upstream but I haven't personally experienced any congestion issues with Init7, even over long distances (e.g. Zurich to Fremont, CA).
All ISPs are at the edge of being oversubscribed. If not they're either commercially incompetent or in the hype stage of a marketing cycle (omg check this ISP I can download 24/7 at full speed)
The thing about this 10Gbps Salt Fiber Deal is that it's only available in very few places. I have 1Gbps Fiber Internet via Swisscom[0] at my Residence, but Salt Fiber is apparently not availible to me, even though the Fiber Infrastructure is shared between all Internet Providers.
The horizontal fiber deployment is shared (afaik, to be precise, in the same pipes there's Swisscom fibers plus the ones that belong to your local utilities) but ISPs still have to set up their own access points.
I do recommend Init7, but in the meantime Wingo would be a bit cheaper for you, and I believe that Sunrise is available everywhere (they use Swisscom's network where they don't have their own access points). Yallo is currently offering a deal for 35.-/month.
The last mile infrastructure is shared but the ISP still needs equipment nearby. Have a look at Init7's map for an example of how many you need to cover a good chunk of Switzerland: https://www.init7.net/de/infrastruktur/fiber7-pops/
Australia: where the govt spends $40bn on broadband infrastructure and we still only get 100/40 unlimited for $79 (with an ISP with decent peering; you can get it cheaper but nooooo)
(you can get 250/100 but that caps you at 3TB and costs $250/mo)
Should probably note that most people cant get 100/40, are on ADSL3.5 (VDSL2) and the NBN Co only guarantee 25/5... for $51 bn. The network was already antiquated before they even began building it and will need to spend another $51bn right away to install labours FTTH. Their pipe dreams about 5G saving the day are rubbish. Its so bad some politician thought it reasonable to charge the AU ppl $35k/yr for his internet bill at home(4G + over data). /sigh
I have Bahnhof 100/100 at the moment. Effectivly (through wi-fi/AirPort) on a lucky day I get like 50% out of it on average.
This offer is 1000% increase in capacity for a 20% price increase and changing router? Seems too good to be true and stupid if not upgrading. But I suspect it’s only full capacity at like one place in Stockholm.
Bit strange that they choose to partner with Huawei. Doesnt feel Bahnhof especially after resent hardware stories. But I guess its a long process...
I have absolutely zero trust in Huawei as a company.
First of all, they're in bed with the Chinese government. Second, they have a track record of lying, shoddy marketing and just absolute abhorrent mentality towards IP.
I would never ever think about buying a Huawei product, especially for something critical as a router. I don't know about their privacy stance but I have no expectations.
I have AT&T gigabit fiber, and two problems arise getting the theoretical 1000Mbps speeds.
First is the AT&T provided router performance is terrible, swap it out. I went with a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X. However unless you enable hardware offloading[1], the EdgeRouter maxes out at around 300Mbps. I can't speak to this new router, but typically devices that can truly push 10Gbit/s are very expensive and enterprise.
Second, and more of a problem in residential are WiFi limits. I have a Apple Time Capsule running AC on 5Ghz (80Mhz channel), and max out at 400Mbps using iperf[2] to a machine hard wired in the LAN.
You should be able to route 10gbps with a whitebox PC containing a recent intel Core CPU (say, 5th gen or later) and a decent NIC such as Intel X540 or similar.
I was under the impression a customer cannot replace AT&T routers. Do you mean you use a different router behind the box AT&T provides, or that there are viable replacements for the boxes AT&T provides customers to connect service?
I hope so. My EdgeRouter X is scheduled to come tomorrow. I have a fiber connection box coming in, which outputs RJ45. I am assuming the AT&T router can be replaced as it is just doing DHCP to get my public IP.
I'm really interested in knowing if you get this to work with AT&T without their gateway being in front of your router. I've been working on a project and have so far found AT&T gateways to be necessary for a working connection, due to certificates on the device (as mentioned by another comment in this thread). Care to share if you got it working?
Would the auth information showup in the AT&T modem admin page? They doesn't use PPPOE, just standard DHCP. Just hoping they don't filter by Mac address upstream.
Interesting. If they do use the device MAC address, that could turn out to be really easy. :)
Mac address spoofing is super easy (basic admin task almost) on most *nix's, though (from hazy memory) it does depend on the network card capabilities and driver.
Looking at the general info page for the EdgeRouter X, it seems to run something called "EdgeOS":
On (V)DSL, they use 802.1X, not sure about their fiber service. That's what forces me to use their "home gateway" (since it auths using the certificate in the device).
As a curiosity thing, have you ever cracked open the device to see what's inside? Maybe JTAG ports on the main board, or even having the cert stored (say) on microSD card? :D
If I did live in Sweden and did have Bahnhof, could I hypothetically use my own router by a SFP+ or other connection to the "handoff interface" or whatever people call it these days?
Yes. In general fiber connections here use the "Stadsnät" system (municipality/city network). The municipality owns the cables and provides you with a dumb fiber/RJ45 converter. You hook up your own router (if you want to use one) to that. The only thing your ISP provides is, well, the connection. If you're unhappy with your ISP then you can switch from the stadsnät's website in ~5 minutes.
Or at least that's the happy case. Cable (Comhem) and ADSL (usually Telia) are the same shitshows as everywhere else, and there are a few fiber providers (such as Ownit, which my HOA is stuck with) that opt out of the stadsnät system and instead trick HOAs into signing multi-year exclusivity contracts that somehow manage to make Comhem look good.
To add to the above, Bahnhof most likely in this case (10 Gbps), and only in a very specific case is this untrue, doesn't provide the high speed over a stadsnät.
They themselves can act as what's called a communications operator/provider which allows you to use various services over dark fiber which is installed in your apartment or house.
In the case where Bahnhof takes over as the communications operator/provider, you are essentially directly connected to their backbone and they can provide all their services, currently up to 10 Gbps.
If you so wish, you can completely avoid any CPE or media converter and hook your equipment straight up to the fiber. Mind you, it's good if you're careful with that fiber since it is terminated in the last 20 cm or so completely without a jacket, so don't break it or damage it in any way unless you want to pay for a technician to come out there and re-terminate it for you.
Interesting thought. If the "router" in this case uses standardised protocols and authentication (ATM?/PPPoE?) you could likely hook up a computer or PC directly, install OpenBSD (etc) on it and have a proper firewall directly in place. :)
No authentication whatsoever, hook up any device you want and go nuts.
Edit: it's worth noting though that in the cases where BiDi is used, you'd need the appropriate BiDi module using the correct wavelength.
Most CPEs use SFP with the correct SFP+ module already in, which can be reused.
I'm not 100% sure but I think so. There's a fiber coming into a wall-mounted non-wireless router. I think I could replace it with any fiber-to-ethernet converter and then hook up my wireless router to the ethernet port.
Coax is a fuck-ton better than telephone cables. Optics for the win, but as long as old cabling is all we got, I'd sure as hell prefer coax over telephone wiring.
UTP is fine for 10gig, and in fact it has much longer reach, 55m-100m depending on cable quality, compared to twinaxial which is only defined by the standards to 15m. Twinax is also bulkier and costs more.
Coax isn't defined for 10g, so it's basically worthless. Certainly not "a fuckton better" since there are literally no coax physical modules for 10g.
We're on a thread about residential internet modems. In this context, "coax" means "DOCSIS" (i.e. internet over cable TV), as opposed to fiber and telephone (DSL). UTP is absolutely useless as a residential uplink, as 100 meter gets you nowhere. Telephone cables are shit, so DOCSIS and fiber is where its at.
However, you seem to be talking about direct attach cable ("DAC"), which absolutely no one mentioned. As someone who worked at a network equipment manufacturer, absolutely no one calls direct attach cables "coax". They're often called "twinax" (which is a type of coax), although this terminology is misleading and entirely irrelevant. Also, they're kind of pointless these days.
And no, while 10GBase-T is a thing, the pluggables are too expensive to make the activity worthwhile. Run fiber—it's not really more expensive, and it's future proof for when you need to setup 25G or 40G soon.
https://support.huawei.com/enterprise/en/access-network/echo...
[1] https://fiber.salt.ch/en/
https://fiber.usinternet.com/
That being said, I think Banhoff was claiming to be the first in Sweden, not worldwide.
Besides their customer service is horrendous.
As opposed to a dedicated direct 10 gigabit line to every other internet device? Everything is always shared unless you request a dedicated circuit between a given set of points. Sometimes the over subscription ratio is just shit, which is a real thing to complain about.
Salt uses 10G-PON, which as I understand it splits a single 10Gbit port. Salt's configured to split it 64 ways.
It's possible other providers are oversubscribed upstream but I haven't personally experienced any congestion issues with Init7, even over long distances (e.g. Zurich to Fremont, CA).
[0] 80.- per Month
I do recommend Init7, but in the meantime Wingo would be a bit cheaper for you, and I believe that Sunrise is available everywhere (they use Swisscom's network where they don't have their own access points). Yallo is currently offering a deal for 35.-/month.
https://www.yallo.ch/en/giga
(you can get 250/100 but that caps you at 3TB and costs $250/mo)
EDIT: scratch that, it’s up to $51bn
This offer is 1000% increase in capacity for a 20% price increase and changing router? Seems too good to be true and stupid if not upgrading. But I suspect it’s only full capacity at like one place in Stockholm.
Bit strange that they choose to partner with Huawei. Doesnt feel Bahnhof especially after resent hardware stories. But I guess its a long process...
*edit: better phrasing
Also, i can't get the 10gbit where i live, so probably only the big cities connected to "Northern Light".
edit: remark about availability
no thank you
First of all, they're in bed with the Chinese government. Second, they have a track record of lying, shoddy marketing and just absolute abhorrent mentality towards IP.
I would never ever think about buying a Huawei product, especially for something critical as a router. I don't know about their privacy stance but I have no expectations.
First is the AT&T provided router performance is terrible, swap it out. I went with a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X. However unless you enable hardware offloading[1], the EdgeRouter maxes out at around 300Mbps. I can't speak to this new router, but typically devices that can truly push 10Gbit/s are very expensive and enterprise.
Second, and more of a problem in residential are WiFi limits. I have a Apple Time Capsule running AC on 5Ghz (80Mhz channel), and max out at 400Mbps using iperf[2] to a machine hard wired in the LAN.
[1] https://m.newegg.com/products/9SIA4A04ZV6491
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/163291199329
* https://www.ebay.com/itm/322683902048
* there are plenty more
Anything from the ConnectX (series 1) model onwards works decently in Linux (CentOS) & FreeBSD.
The auth protocols are generally standardised though, so you shouldn't have too much trouble. :)
Mac address spoofing is super easy (basic admin task almost) on most *nix's, though (from hazy memory) it does depend on the network card capabilities and driver.
Looking at the general info page for the EdgeRouter X, it seems to run something called "EdgeOS":
https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-x/
That has a user guide available:
https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/edgemax/EdgeOS_UG.pdf
Page 4 of the user guide says:
If EdgeOS really is Linux based, you might be in luck. :)Or at least that's the happy case. Cable (Comhem) and ADSL (usually Telia) are the same shitshows as everywhere else, and there are a few fiber providers (such as Ownit, which my HOA is stuck with) that opt out of the stadsnät system and instead trick HOAs into signing multi-year exclusivity contracts that somehow manage to make Comhem look good.
They themselves can act as what's called a communications operator/provider which allows you to use various services over dark fiber which is installed in your apartment or house.
In the case where Bahnhof takes over as the communications operator/provider, you are essentially directly connected to their backbone and they can provide all their services, currently up to 10 Gbps.
If you so wish, you can completely avoid any CPE or media converter and hook your equipment straight up to the fiber. Mind you, it's good if you're careful with that fiber since it is terminated in the last 20 cm or so completely without a jacket, so don't break it or damage it in any way unless you want to pay for a technician to come out there and re-terminate it for you.
Edit: it's worth noting though that in the cases where BiDi is used, you'd need the appropriate BiDi module using the correct wavelength. Most CPEs use SFP with the correct SFP+ module already in, which can be reused.
Coax isn't defined for 10g, so it's basically worthless. Certainly not "a fuckton better" since there are literally no coax physical modules for 10g.
We're on a thread about residential internet modems. In this context, "coax" means "DOCSIS" (i.e. internet over cable TV), as opposed to fiber and telephone (DSL). UTP is absolutely useless as a residential uplink, as 100 meter gets you nowhere. Telephone cables are shit, so DOCSIS and fiber is where its at.
However, you seem to be talking about direct attach cable ("DAC"), which absolutely no one mentioned. As someone who worked at a network equipment manufacturer, absolutely no one calls direct attach cables "coax". They're often called "twinax" (which is a type of coax), although this terminology is misleading and entirely irrelevant. Also, they're kind of pointless these days.
And no, while 10GBase-T is a thing, the pluggables are too expensive to make the activity worthwhile. Run fiber—it's not really more expensive, and it's future proof for when you need to setup 25G or 40G soon.
Maybe directly eating (internal networking) vs. making cider (residential uplinks)? I do know that I do not wish to try steak cider.