Unity Technologies Targeting 2020 IPO

(cheddar.com)

124 points | by leafo 4 days ago

7 comments

  • cableshaft 4 days ago

    Is this a good or bad thing for the long-term usage of their platform, do you think? My gut instinct says bad, since once they go public they will be under continued pressure by stockholders to keep making more and more money, and so they feel increased pressure to increase their prices and/or reduce featureset for the free version (or start charging for it again). They might be more focused on consumer facing features than bug fixing than they have been in the past, also.

    I don't know, just seen this go bad with lots of other companies, that leaves me skeptical about how this will go and nervous about making games using their platform in the future.

    • m12k 3 days ago

      The investors (Sequoia being the big one) will want to cash out at some point, and then it's either an IPO or an exit. The most likely buyers in an exit-scenario would be platform owners like Apple, Google or Microsoft, which would be terrible for Unity's viability as a cross-platform tool (or at least look that way - just see the reactions that came after Microsoft bought GitHub). Or they get bought by Epic/Tencent, and the market becomes a monopoly, which is pretty damn bad as well. So under the circumstances I think an IPO is by far the lesser evil, even though I do share your concerns about the shortsightedness of public investors (though I'd argue that's a general problem and not a problem with Unity specifically)

      • jayd16 3 days ago

        Seems like Microsoft would be the obvious choice. They just bought Xamarin, they're finally in a good spot with regards to C#'s growing cross platform viability and they're actually a game publisher.

        I don't really know why MS would bother unless not doing so would risk a Unity collapse and a loss of a lot of C# development.

        • Impossible 3 days ago

          Many of Microsoft Window Mixed Reality\Hololens apps are made in Unity also, so it makes sense there.

        • lazerwalker 3 days ago

          I'd be curious to hear your characterization of the reactions to MS buying GitHub.

          My observation was a bunch of people in places like the HN comments being angry, but no meaningful mass protest, or exodus from GitHub to competitors, etc.

          • 3 days ago
            [deleted]
          • jayd16 4 days ago

            You can already feel this as every other new feature seems to be attached to some kind of cloud service offering.

            • dleslie 4 days ago

              Silver Lake invested 400 million in them two years ago.

              As others have noticed, there's been a (coincidental?) increase in their SaaS line of products.

              • anonymous5133 3 days ago

                Could go either way. If they are smart then they use any money raised in the IPO to create new products or services to grow the business. If they are stupid then they just take the existing customer base and figure out ways to extract more cash out of them by doing the things you mentioned.

                • blihp 4 days ago

                  Your gut is giving you good feedback.

                  • yyyymmddhhmmss 4 days ago

                    >They might be more focused on consumer facing features than bug fixing than they have been in the past, also.

                    I’m not sure they have much headroom left to do that!

                  • vtange 4 days ago

                    This might be a poor PR move for Unity in relation to game developers. Many will read it as a cash grab with more monetization shenanigans lurking on the horizon and decide to switch to engines like Godot Engine. Unity might've actually hurt itself if it loses too many client developers.

                    It doesn't help that there have already been some recent stories of developers being given the cold corporate treatment,[0] and the recent issue with Improbable.[1]

                    [0] https://sipreadrepeat.com/2018/12/16/unity-email-controversy... [1] https://gamedaily.biz/article/507/improbable-disputes-unitys...

                    • cart_cart 4 days ago

                      I've been building a game part-time in Godot[0] and I contribute to the code on occasion. For the most part it has been a pleasant experience[1]. It currently does not have the same feature set or stability as Unity and Unreal, but it IS close and it IS getting better every day. And probably more importantly, it is funded and has smart people on its payroll.

                      If you are a hobbyist or you are making 2D games, Godot is fantastic right now and I highly recommend that you check it out.

                      If you are a professional game studio or you care about 3D, Godot might work for you right now, but you will probably hit some rough edges. These edges get smoother every day and now is a fantastic time to help Godot reach the next quality bar, either via donating[2] or contributing code[3].

                      The whole industry will benefit if we have an open-source toolset without licensing terms and fees. Godot seems to be our best bet right now. There are SO many talented developers in this space and right now most of their efforts go into improving ecosystems that they are PAYING to use. If even a small portion of that group redirected their efforts to improving the commons we would have a top tier product in no time.

                      [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxW4PcX0fa8 [1] The 3D asset pipeline and renderer are my biggest pain points right now. Both of these are being addressed as we speak. [2] https://www.patreon.com/godotengine [3] https://github.com/godotengine/godot

                      • slashink 4 days ago

                        While Godot is great it's not really a competitor to Unity with the vast array of use cases that Unity has today, not to even mention the workflows built around the engine.

                        I would rather bet on Unreal or similar engines with equal features.

                        • ValleyOfTheMtns 4 days ago

                          As a hobbyist game developer I can attest to the quality and ease of use of Godot compared to Unity and Unreal (note: I've only dabbled with making 2D games). It "clicked" much quicker for me and I can quickly prototype ideas (most of which are terrible, but that's not the engine's fault).

                          • jayshua 4 days ago

                            I've built a fairly large MMO unity project. The worst part of the process was the editor. Godot is a much more plesant experience.

                          • Thaxll 4 days ago

                            Godot is not event close to be comparable to Unity.

                            • thrillgore 3 days ago

                              Godot doesn't have authoring tools like ProBuilder, support for FBX, Arnold, Substance Painter (all made impossible do to the licensing put forth by these companies, granted), and poor documentation. They aren't prioritizing design tools the way Unity has. More funding and talent would help Godot on this front. Its changing, but still, nobody outside of hobbyists are taking Godot seriously.

                              • aboutruby 4 days ago

                                Thanks, I didn't know anyone else made a WebGL/wasm export tool for games.

                                https://docs.godotengine.org/en/3.0/getting_started/workflow...

                                • Impossible 4 days ago

                                  This is almost a standard feature for game engines\game frameworks, Unity, Unreal, Godot, Game Maker, Construct, RPG Maker, Pixel Game Maker and a bunch of other smaller more niche frameworks and engines like Pico-8, Raylib and Oryol all support HTML5 export.

                                • extrememacaroni 4 days ago

                                  Yes, godot is exactly the engine you'd switch to if unity were not an option.

                                  • cybwraith 4 days ago

                                    Xenko is also looking promising

                                    • ptrott2017 4 days ago

                                      Agree with this - having used Godot and Xenko both are good but with a significant gap between then and Unity/Unreal both can be used to build games/apps and make a living with.

                                      Godot is more polished and excels for 2D and 3D is quickly evolving. Godot also has a great community. Xenko is better for high end graphics and large complex scenes - especially if pushing the edge in VR etc. Since going open source its evolving slowly but steadily. While It is missing some features compared to Unity and Godot it has an incredibly capable foundation and its very easy to build on. The Community is very small but active and it has a lot of promise.

                                      • skocznymroczny 3 days ago

                                        Isn't Xenko done 100% in C#? There is a mentality in gamedev circles, that only C/C++, and maybe Rust are viable for a game engine. Unity supposedly avoids it by the fact that while gameplay code is C#, the engine underneath is still C++. How's Xenko on the performance side?

                                        • ptrott2017 3 days ago

                                          Yup its C# and then calling through to respective APIS for Directx 11/12/Vulcan etc and via xamarin for mobile. Coming from a C/C++ engine developer background I was very pleasantly suprised how performant Xenko is. It easily gives Unity a run for its money, C#7 is a nice scripting environment and the renderer is a thing of beauty both architecturally and in terms of output.

                                          Its worth checking out.

                                    • finder83 4 days ago

                                      I agree, and I hope that it might actually be good news for Godot.

                                    • reificator 4 days ago

                                      I was just starting to be hopeful after their decision to hire Mike Acton and put him in charge of a more data-driven alternative to their existing architecture.

                                      Now I'm worried that this will start driving them toward short-term gains more than anything.

                                      I'm predicting that if they go public, they'll ape Epic's storefront model within 3-5 years.

                                      • Mirioron 4 days ago

                                        The data-driven architecture seems amazing. They've shown us some great results. I echo your worries that this IPO will probably lock them into short term goals.

                                      • stuart78 3 days ago

                                        I understand the reservation about an IPO changing their motivations, but it seems like a pretty predictable path for a company that has raised >$600m.

                                        It does not seem to me obviously better (for developers or their customers) for Unity to stay private or be acquired. Acquisition could threaten the cross-platform appeal and perpetual private state would not deliver a return to investors.

                                        And I don't think there is an inherent threat to either the freemium model or a perversion of the roadmap. There seems to be real competition between game engines and the value the free offering provides is one of the easiest entry points to game development. This delivers a huge number of potential developers, which is the foundation that sustains the paying developers above it.

                                        Somebody there told me once that their mission was to 'have half the world's creative content created in Unity', meaning not only video games, but films and presumably traditional CAD markets such as architecture and product design. If this is true, I think the real threat to developers irrespective of IPO is one of focus. Can Unity evolve the product for their core market, or will they become too horizontally committed and lose focus?

                                        This is a place where the market could 'correct' a land grab strategy by driving the company to focus on the core business.

                                        • gmueckl 4 days ago

                                          Hm, I do not really like that Unity has become such a widely used engine as a completely closed platform. Computer games are part of our cultural heritage by now and tying them to a closed source, utterly opaque and unmaintainable runtime environent will probably not help with keeping them alive as artifacts that can be experienced in the future.

                                          I wish they were in a position to actually open up the core runtime source code so that it can be ported and maintained independently in the future. The tools - the commercially important part of the engine - can stay closed for all I care. I wonder if we would see such a move with shareholders crying for quarterly results.

                                          • BoorishBears 3 days ago

                                            I honestly don’t buy that for a minute.

                                            Unity3D is an implementation detail for games that would be closed source anyways.

                                            The games that are the biggest part of mainstream culture today like Fortnite, GTA, CoD, AAA games in general are not open source.

                                            If a creator is interested in open source they won’t use Unity, but since open source is very far from the “default” for games there’s no difference between a game written in Unity and a game written in some in-house engine.

                                            Not one culture defining game interested in being open source has come out on Unity3d because you don’t start an open source project by building on a closed source engine...

                                            And as an aside, Unity3D is not that opaque either, increasingly large parts of it are being opened up and the Unity executable setup is not designed to be particularly opaque to someone trying to access a specific game's assets.

                                            • gmueckl 3 days ago

                                              Your argument does not work from a technological and economic angle.

                                              On the technical side, most game code is present in the final distributable as abstract MSIL, running inside a VM. So you wouldn't need the game source code to port a game in 99% of the cases.

                                              Big budget titles use engines for which they have source code access. So studios can just go and update thesw titles whem they want and that is what they are doing. Small studios and indies don't have that luxury. They use Unity because it isncheap to get locked into that plarform and get the game out. If Unity ever goes under, there is simply no engine code that they can maintain. No indie can afford a Unity source license - it's multiple of their entire budget. They would have to recreate their games almost from scratch on a different engine if they ever want to re-release them. And the results will always be subtly different from the original. This is a fate that awaits about half of the games of the Steam catalog.

                                              • zaksoup 3 days ago

                                                I mean, Unreal Engine and CRYEngine are source-available if not open-source. I'm not sure that it's so far-fetched to call for the open-sourcing of game technology like engines.

                                                • j_4 3 days ago

                                                  Large parts of Unity (everything C#) are source-available as well.

                                                  • lasagnaphil 3 days ago

                                                    But unlike Unreal, the source code license is reference-only (yeah it sounds ridiculous, but you are not allowed to modify and recompile the source code.) Someone sent a pull request to the code (a bugfix which solved a lot of GC performance issues), only to get rejected because of the license (although it later got patched internally in Unity)

                                                    https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/UnityCsReference/pull/...

                                                    • BoorishBears 3 days ago

                                                      But how does that affect the above comment trying to spin this as an archival thing? If you want to port to a new platform one day when Unity is bottom up the fact they’re not accepting patches isn’t going to matter

                                                  • BoorishBears 3 days ago

                                                    I don’t think it’s a stretch but the whole “archival and porting” angle just doesn’t work.

                                                    The code for these games isn’t going to be available, so the fact the code for the engine isn’t available doesn’t mean anything

                                                    • gmueckl 3 days ago

                                                      The archival angle works for Unity because the actual game code is run in a .NET CLR (Mono in most variants of the engine).

                                                      Maybe the best way forward is source code escrow the way Trolltech arranged with Qt. They had a deal where the if they ever stopped working on an open source Qt, the last release would become automatically BSD- or MIT-licensed and thus available to all. They had the details worked out nicely. I really believe that Unity should be pressured into such a deal. It is not important now, but it will be an entirely different thing 5 to 10 years after they fold (if ever).

                                                      • BoorishBears 3 days ago

                                                        What are you going on about.

                                                        These games are closed source with IPs owned by multi-billion dollar corporations.

                                                        The engine being closed or open is of literally 0 consequence. Any 3rd party reverse engineering these games to run on a new platform would already be breaking licenses and trademark laws.

                                              • learc83 4 days ago

                                                An IPO is almost always a bit worrying, but I'm feeling very optimistic about the direction Unity is going in general.

                                                I've just started work on a new game using their new ECS system. It's not ready for anyone who's not either a very seasoned programmer or very patient, but so far I like it much better than the standard MonoBehaviour workflow.

                                                • fizixer 4 days ago

                                                  Funny I confused it with Unity Biotechnology, which also raised $300M recently and is on the upswing.

                                                  Would be interesting if both go IPO around the same time and confuse the heck out of everyone:

                                                  - "Did you hear Unity went IPO?"

                                                  - "Unity? the Technologies or the Biotechnology?"