We Stopped Arguing About Chores After Making One Spreadsheet

(allencheng.com)

37 points | by allencheng 1481 days ago

11 comments

  • scotty79 1481 days ago
    1. There are no chores or obligations only things someone wants to get done.

    2. If you want something done that you personally don't want to do at the moment you need to ask. Every time.

    3. Person asked has the right to refuse without any consequences or resentment. If person asked refuses to do it, you need to do it yourself or stop wanting it. If the person agrees and does what you wanted it's polite and effortless to thank for it. If person does something that's beneficial for you even though you didn't ask you should thank as well.

    Those rules, even never openly stated, just distilled unilaterally by me resulted in happy domestic life of 14 years between two good persons. Those rules require no bookkeeping and promote positive interactions and instill sense of individual freedom. They are extremely flexible. They adapt easily to switching jobs, homes, schedules.

    You don't regret how much you do around the house because it was either to satisfy your own wants or a direct result of specific request you freely chose to satisfy. You also don't resent that other people are doing so little because they do that either because you didn't ask them or they refuse many of your requests (in latter case, should you have that relationship?).

    I believe it might be beneficial to apply those rules even to business relationships.

    • jobigoud 1480 days ago
      I think a factor in the success of your approach is that the two partners should have more or less the same idea of tidiness. If one has more tolerance than the other with say, seeing piles of clothes or plates accumulate, they don't feel as concerned.
      • scotty79 1480 days ago
        That or just acceptance that their levels of tidiness differ and awareness that the tidier person will have to keep their environment tidier if he/she keeps wanting it because that's only for his/her benefit.

        Trouble pretty much always stems from thinking that your standards and wants are or should be universal and ascribing them to other person.

  • JoeAltmaier 1481 days ago
    We stopped arguing with a few simple rules:

      Everybody has their own chores. Fixed. No confusion
    
      Say thanks! each time you see a chore done. Everybody likes to be noticed.
    
      See a chore undone? Do it. Its easier to do it, than to complain about it.  Corollary: Complaining about a chore, makes it your chore this time.
    
    So we went from fighting about who's doing what, to giving each other the benefit of the doubt. Appreciating what everybody does. And sometimes doing a kindness for another person, just because. (And getting thanked for it!)
    • collyw 1480 days ago
      This wouldn't have worked in the shared appartment I lived in years ago. One person in particular seemed to not do his own share of washing dishes. So everyone else should do his dishes rather than complain? Seems a bit backwards.
      • JoeAltmaier 1480 days ago
        So how did complaining work out?

        Anyway, notice the part about everybody doing different chores. They dislike dishes - work something out, they do something else.

  • mntmoss 1481 days ago
    Whether it works or not depends on how much your relationship is built on systematic, empirical decisions. Spreadsheets like this are hugely common in larger communal living arrangements.

    And there is a harsh quality to it, but I don't think the people knocking this strategy fully appreciate the danger of a relationship built on illusions or delusions. If you come to me saying "true love overcomes all" or somesuch I'd be seriously concerned about gaslighting or codependency taking hold.

  • alexandrerond 1481 days ago
    Chore assignment will become way easier after the divorce, towards which this guy is clearly heading...
    • allencheng 1480 days ago
      We'll see! I think it takes two people of a willing type to buy into a system like this (people who believe explicit expectations lead to smoother relationships, instead of expecting other people to read their mind). I understand it won't work at all for others.
    • dieselerator 1481 days ago
      All right, you got me to read the article.
    • tripzilch 1480 days ago
      Why do you suppose that is the case?
      • sushid 1480 days ago
        Unless both partners are thrilled with the idea of logging their chore completion timestamps on a spreadsheet (or weigh this against the cost of resentment one will feel of the other person, as the author suggests), I think it's going to lead to resentment.

        It's like clocking in at work. Who the hell _wants_ to do that?

  • JimTheMan 1481 days ago
    OR this spreadsheet will only lead to nitpicking and grief...

    I can't think of any high functioning relationship that uses one. The fact that people think they need one spells doom. It says, if only we had some kind technical solution to what is clearly an interpersonal problem.

    • brmgb 1480 days ago
      Anectotal evidence but the only time I fought regularly about chores in a long term relationship, it only started in the fourth year of our common life and clearly was a proxy for more deep seated and complicated issues with the relationship.

      I will hazard than most of the time when people really fight about chores, the actual problem lies somewhere else.

  • DeathArrow 1481 days ago
    You can also make an Agile team and assign chores in sprints. You can install Jira to help keeping track.

    Or you can just discuss and do them when needed.

  • RobLach 1481 days ago
    This spreadsheet looks like a chore.

    Open communication and mutual assistance is way better than some sort of favor debt economy.

    • Fjolsvith 1480 days ago
      When my spouse asks me to do something as a favor, I do it, then tell her it's done and then tell her she doesn't owe me a favor because I love her.
  • downerending 1480 days ago
    Over several marriages, I've developed this strategy: I do all of the chores.

    In short order, a decent partner will start taking over a reasonable share.

    If that doesn't happen, it's an excellent indicator of deeper problems that will ultimately sink the relationship. Leave.

  • DeathArrow 1481 days ago
    I wonder if there aren't chore counseling and consulting businesses.
    • Fjolsvith 1480 days ago
      I outsource chores.
      • sushid 1480 days ago
        You can't outsource chores right now (or shouldn't be able to) unless you have a live-in maid with you.
  • AtlasBarfed 1481 days ago
    ... do you both work fulltime jobs?

    ... is exterior/yard work in the sheet?

  • sushid 1480 days ago
    TL;DR create a complex agile-esque process for doing chores with timestamps instead of just setting a calendar reminder or doing it ad-hoc.