Apple removes $1k featureless iPhone application (2008)

(latimesblogs.latimes.com)

109 points | by EndXA 1146 days ago

20 comments

  • CapriciousCptl 1146 days ago
    In 2008 an app charging $1,000 that told people you were rich was censored. In 2021 we celebrate non-fungible tokens, 6-figure digital basketball cards and million dollar memes.
    • zxcvbn4038 1146 days ago
      We did that in 2008 also, I think the only reason Apple pulled that app is they expected the sales to be charged back and they were wanting to avoid the possible media circus going on around it. I am betting that in 2021 the story might have a different ending. If I wanted to have a service that would certify someone uber wealthy or old money and display an icon, I bet it could be done.

      Nothing stops people from gold plating their iPhones or putting it in a jewel encrusted case - if you drop it better then gems take the blow then your phone, right? I’ve heard stories of überrich kids dropping $36k so they can rule on Clash of Clans, and grade school kids blowing their college funds on smurfberries to get ahead in whatever game uses those, and for the most part Apple is happy to let that happen but will step in with refunds to head off any media frenzy.

      Has anyone tried to play Blackjack on an iPhone recently? It is almost impossible to find an app that lets you play any casino games without -buying chips- to play. Who is spending $99.99, $19.99, or $9.99 of real money to gamble X amount of fake money with real reward except being on a scoreboard for a day? If you just want to play just for fun you have to go onto web sites.

      • the_local_host 1146 days ago
        > If I wanted to have a service that would certify someone uber wealthy or old money and display an icon, I bet it could be done.

        $1000 isn't enough to charge to establish that someone is meaningfully wealthy; the app should have cost $10 million.

        • ohgodplsno 1145 days ago
          If you've got $1000 to blow on a joke, you are more than reasonably comfortable and entering wealthy territory.

          $1000 is rent for many people, it's one half to one third of their salary.

        • chrischen 1146 days ago
          I think this is the same concept of establishing wealth as, say, wiping one's own ass with $1 bills.
        • zxcvbn4038 1145 days ago
          What was that Steve Martain movie where he is trying to take a woman to a fancy restaurant, so he is having a meeting with the head chef and the banker, and they keep asking him what he will order from the menu "The Duck!? On your salary?"

          Yeah, 1000 is going to weed out a number of people but its not unreachable, should be more for 1000 we'll examine your financial situation and then grant you the ability to display the icon.

        • SllX 1145 days ago
          IIRC the the highest price an app could set at the App Store launch in 2008 was $999 or $999.99.

          This was someone putting a drawing in an iPhone app bundle with a funny name and charging the highest price that Apple allowed developers to set.

          • JKCalhoun 1145 days ago
            In other words, art.

            It was brilliant. Made even more brilliant when the people who had actually paid for the app went on line, backpedalling, to explain how they had bought it on accident.

      • trissylegs 1145 days ago
      • jkinudsjknds 1145 days ago
        Why would grade school kids have access to their college funds?
      • koolba 1146 days ago
        > Has anyone tried to play Blackjack on an iPhone recently? It is almost impossible to find an app that lets you play any casino games without -buying chips- to play.

        Why would someone spend the time and money to develop an app that is not monetized?

        You’d need a server to manage state and that’s an ongoing cost as well. It doesn’t exist because it’s not economical to do so.

        • xkeysc0re 1145 days ago
          You realize you can run code on the iPhone right? There's nothing inherent to blackjack - or any casino game whatsoever - that would necessitate holding remote state (Multiplayer obviously a different story).
        • zaphirplane 1145 days ago
          I think the chips have to have some value, pressing a reload 10m wallet button will make a pointless gambling game, loose win who care just get more free chips Gambling Games devolve to everyone all in, everyone bluffing
    • alsetmusic 1146 days ago
      > In 2008 an app charging $1,000 that told people you were rich was censored.

      That’s not censorship. It’s protecting customers from being duped into buying something they don’t understand and getting ripped off.

      TFA quotes an app review where someone felt scammed. The dev is quoted as saying he didn’t want people to buy it by accident and then feel cheated:

      > "I don't want to collect money from people who did this by accident and I am glad that Apple returned the money for two orders," Heinrich said.

      It sounds like he had good intent, was following the rules. It still wasn’t a good app to be in the App Store.

      • blunte 1146 days ago
        If someone chooses to drop 1k to buy any app, one must assume they made some consideration before buying.

        Conversely, there are countless free apps (Facebook-owned included) which extract far more value than 1,000usd from their users... and the users are completely unaware because the price of the app didn't give them pause.

        • 2muchcoffeeman 1145 days ago
          > If someone chooses to drop 1k to buy any app, one must assume they made some consideration before buying.

          The first iPhone was released in 2007. In 2008 people had only just begun writing apps and publishing to the app store. It's probably fair to say that people were still finding their way around the app store and some people were just curious.

          Kids have sometimes ended up dropping thousands of dollars on stupid in-app purchases in games. I'm pretty sure they spent zero time considering the consequences.

          Generally I think consumer protections are a good thing.

          • SllX 1145 days ago
            App Store launch was late 2008, something like 15 months after the iPhone launched, which is to reinforce your point. At the time the ground rules were not at all well established, only what was in that first policy document developers had to sign and Apple hadn’t yet accounted for any of the edge cases developers would come to discover.

            App Store descriptions were also more prominent at launch than they are today. The developer did nothing to obfuscate what it was nor to try and cheat anyone. The price was there, the description was there. It was exactly what he advertised.

        • kube-system 1146 days ago
          That might be true, if we assume the buyers are adults who are using their own phone and paying with their own money. I don't think there were many spending controls at the time.
          • blunte 1145 days ago
            probably not; but the early adopters of that technology were probably upper class people who could survive with and deal with a financial snafu of 1000$.

            what really got people (and apple) worked up was the idea that someone could create a "nothing" and make a lot of money with that. now we laugh because we can all create crypto tokens and sell them to naive investors.

            • chipotle_coyote 1145 days ago
              > the early adopters of that technology were probably upper class people who could survive with and deal with a financial snafu of 1000$

              While there's undoubtedly an intersection between the set "tech geeks who want to be early adapters" and "people for whom losing $1K is no big deal", they're not identical. Remember that the original iPhone was $399[1]; losing 2.5x the cost of the phone to somebody's dumb software joke would not have just been an "oopsie, I guess we'll have to get a slightly cheaper jar of caviar for afternoon tea, Lovey" moment for a lot of us.

              [1]: Technically, it was $599 for the 8GB model, but that initial price only lasted 3 months, and early buyers got a $100 credit in partial offset.

        • interpol_p 1145 days ago
          But if they didn't make any considerations before buying, we should still encourage them to return the app and reverse the transaction

          There's no point punishing people for accidentally spending money on a digital product they don't want when the tech involved to reverse that decision is available, ready to use, and won't hurt any parties involved

      • Lammy 1146 days ago
        > It still wasn’t a good app to be in the App Store.

        aka it was bad PR for Apple, so it was removed.

      • chrischen 1146 days ago
        Not sure if duping would be a good reason. Most people would easily be able to get a refund from the App store.
    • shireboy 1146 days ago
      Overpriced collectibles were around in 2008 and well before. Beanie Babies anyone? Tulips? A fool and his money are soon parted. Only difference here is “digital”.
      • blunte 1146 days ago
        The tulip reference is worn out and simply not fitting with the modern scenarios it is compared to.

        In the 1600s, if you bought anything that didn't come from your village or region, that was a big deal. Tulips were an exotic distant foreign luxury (as frankly any flower would be if you could not grow it in your garden already).

        People who bought them were not average, they were privileged and wealthy. Surely no peasant was duped into investing their half-month's worth life savings into tulip futures.

        Also, Amsterdam was the first stock and commodities exchange in the world as far a we know (or at least in the west, as written by westerners). So peculiar investments should have been more likely.

        Ironically, we now live in a world where non-physical creations with non-physical provenance fetch huge sums because... ? (because there is a lot of excess wealth accumulated by a few people who can piss it away without consequence, or because they can buy it with un-tax-reported currency).

        • megameter 1146 days ago
          I think the key difference is exactly what you're getting at - there isn't a physical scarcity to be had here, so a digital token primarily expresses speculative value by default. Speculation always comes and goes with the hype of a bubble.

          Lasting value beyond speculation appears when there is use value. But how do you apply a use value to a token? Well, you can't do it by locking down the nominally encoded asset - that's just a sticker pasted on it. These things do not gatekeep well. The use value comes from someone declaring that the bearer of the token is now entitled to something - a song, a poem, a noble rank. Anyone can do that for any token at any time. That is a thing that a unique, uncensored digital asset could be very relevant towards.

          So the interesting part has not really come yet.

    • adfjalkfja 1146 days ago
      got to love the $200,000 csgo weapon skins too
      • blunte 1146 days ago
        cough money laundering
        • foobar33333 1146 days ago
          How does this work via csgo skins? Genuinely curios how it works.
          • blunte 1146 days ago
            I can't speak for cargo skins specifically, but when some "asset" sells for an abnormally high price, there is usually something else going on. It's like when a condo which would normally be worth 200k sells for 380k, it can be a way to turn dirty money into a "reasonable" sale. Sure the seller has to pay taxes and such on it, but if there's no strict know-your-customer requirement, you can accept money from any source.

            The usual arrangement is that the seller inflates their price a lot, and then the seller provides the product plus a kickback to the person who wants to launder the money. Now the launderer has a real, valid asset, plus optionally some of the overpaid amount in cash. As long as the buyer reports the income and pays taxes, now the seller has laundered the money. I am oversimplifying somewhat, but that's the idea.

            A lot of properties have been sold by a certain high profile American politician that way in the last decade. That's a fascinating place to start studying the scheme.

          • robkop 1146 days ago
            CSGO skins and steam keys work in similar ways, the scheme generally looks like this (or atleast it used to, haven't looked in a few years).

            1. Buy/ obtain stolen credit card details.

            2. Buy CSGO skins / Purchase steam game as a gift with stolen CC.

            3. Sell skins/ game keys through a 3rd party, online marketplace.

            4. Collect profits.

            Congratulation, you've converted dirty money (used to buy stolen CCs) and potentially dirty money (charges put on stolen CCs) in clean, washed money!

            Of course you can do this scheme without the stolen CCs (just buy steam games/ skins) but the CCs have a nice multiplicative effect and they add more obfuscation.

            • jobigoud 1145 days ago
              This doesn't explain why anyone would pay 200K for a csgo skin.
    • eyelidlessness 1145 days ago
      “Censored”
    • m463 1145 days ago
      Hey, some startup stock options end up being worth something. :)
    • chickenmonkey 1145 days ago
      I'm curious - what do you mean by million dollar memes?
    • 0_____0 1146 days ago
      who is this 'we' you speak of
    • giaset 1146 days ago
      I was one of the buyers of the $208k LeBron, and we bought it because it was cool, not because we wanted to tell people we were rich ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • alex_g 1146 days ago
    I remember this. There were several other copycats but never as expensive as that one.

    It's been 12 years now and Apple still has not managed to find a solution to understanding the difference between excessively expensive scam/child-predatory apps vs justifiably high priced apps.

    • CharlesW 1146 days ago
      > …Apple still has not managed to find a solution to understanding the difference between excessively expensive scam/child-predatory apps vs justifiably high priced apps.

      They have from my POV.

      (1) They're rare enough (in a store with 2m+ apps) that we're discussing an bizarre exception from 2008. (2) They offer protections to help avoid the problem (e.g. parental controls). (3) Refunds (in my experience) are painless.

      • alex_g 1145 days ago
        It's not an exception, there are quite a few. Not a week goes by I don't come across an app that is clearly duping people into extremely expensive subscriptions, while at the same time, developers are having apps rejected due to higher than normal pricing.
      • ta2987 1146 days ago
        > (1) They're rare enough (in a store with 2m+ apps) that we're discussing an bizarre exception from 2008.

        You seem to misunderstand, this is one of the "justifiably high priced apps."

  • imglorp 1146 days ago
    Around that same time the fart app on Apple was bringing in 10k per day.

    https://www.wired.com/2008/12/iphone-fart-app/

    • kube-system 1146 days ago
      To be fair, 99 cents is a penny cheaper than a whoopee cushion at the dollar tree. It doesn't seem as unreasonable when compared to the analog world, and probably doesn't pose the same magnitude of financial risk to unintentional purchasers or to the payment processors.
  • ksec 1146 days ago
    That was when App Store was used to bring in more iPhone customers, and a curated app store that all Apps should be of high quality and before the Internet / Smartphone took over everyday life, i.e Apps were not a necessity.

    And then in 2015 Apple decided to push for Services Strategy, no longer is App Store mainly used to attract customers, but an extraction of values that lives within the iPhone ecosystem.

    Sometime post 2015, what is now known as Reader's apps could no longer be without a Sign up button ( Unless you have specific exemption ). An In-App Real Person teaching class would require IAP ( it was scrapped in after the pandemic ) A $1K featureless Apps becomes a monthly or even weekly fraud subscription.

    And the push to everything subscription. While still not offering upgrade pricing for software.

  • avolcano 1146 days ago
    Of course, in a post-IAP world, you can just charge users multiple $50 "best value" virtual currency purchases over several months, which they can then use to roll for video game items that will 99% of the time be of no use to them.
    • zepto 1146 days ago
      That’s how Epic made more than half a billion dollars on iOS.
    • matheusmoreira 1145 days ago
      I don't understand why any app store still allows this. Literally worse than gambling since that at least gives people an actual chance to win actual money. These games probably even vary the winning chances to hook new players and make rich players spend more.
  • joncrane 1145 days ago
    Wasn't there also an app where the point was to try to get throw it as high as possible? It supposedly used the accelerometer/altimeter to measure how high you threw the phone to assign points, but really it was just a joke to try to get people to break their phones.
  • sneak 1146 days ago
    The bigger problem, in my view, is that Apple demands a working email address and phone number (and a street address which is thankfully not verified) even to download $0 apps.

    It also, of course, transmits your fixed and unchangeable system serial number to Apple to obtain any apps. You can't opt out of this.

    • 1vuio0pswjnm7 1146 days ago
      The even bigger problem, which could be regulated if US legislatures had the will, is that Apple is comfortable if consumers believe an item of personal information is required to participate in some Apple service (like an Apple App Store) when truly it isn't. This is why we see so many back-and-forths in forums between users about what is actually required. Apple is comfortable with the confusion. If people are submiting more personal information to Apple than is actually needed, this is not a problem for Apple. Not in the US, anyway.

      The $1K app seems like an early example of how "apps" marketed through Apple (App Store) were immediately being used by "developers" to gather personal information about Apple users, such as indicia of net worth. Having identified a segment of users willing to pay $1K for nothing, via an "app" download, seems like it would be instantly valuable to online advertisers.

      • zeroimpl 1145 days ago
        The seller of the app knows practically nothing about the buyer, basically just the IP address when they launch the app, and other vague details.
        • sneak 1145 days ago
          IP address isn't vague. It identifies your city, state, and country, and your ISP, which gives at the least an indicator of residential/commercial/mobile.

          Coupled along with other data sources, it can frequently give street address or phone number.

    • eyelidlessness 1145 days ago
      Those things would bother me if they even once abused access to that data. I can’t think of one time I’ve gotten anything other than a capacity warning from them, and even that was graciously spread a few months apart.
      • sneak 1145 days ago
        They abuse the data constantly in that they are based in the US and are legally obligated to provide it to federal government snoops without a warrant or probable cause.

        They abused over 30,000 customers in 2019 in this manner per their own transparency report.

        All for data they didn't need to collect in the first place.

        • eyelidlessness 1144 days ago
          Complying with mandatory external policy seems like a huge stretch to claim abuse...
    • HeckFeck 1146 days ago
      Every Linux distro has been managing very well without those since forever, curiously enough.

      But we all know why they want that data. It's not a technical necessity.

      • ece 1145 days ago
        This is true for Android too, you can install F-Droid, disable every Google app (or uninstall) and use it like a normal phone with apps on F-Droid or whatever you want to sideload.
  • tgsovlerkhgsel 1146 days ago
    The most noticeable is the 0.1 MB file size.

    Nowadays, this app would probably be at least 20 MB of bloat.

    • eyelidlessness 1145 days ago
      Yes, that’s definitely more noticeable than an app charging $1k to do nothing
  • wayneftw 1146 days ago
    My favorite less than useless iPhone app of all time is "Send me to heaven" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Send_Me_To_Heaven

    At least Google still carries it.

  • bradfitz 1145 days ago
    If I'm going to give Apple $1,000, I better get a monitor stand out of it at least!
    • sitkack 1145 days ago
      Go for the wheels, they are self balancing now.
  • blunte 1146 days ago
    this bothers me far, far less than free or weekly subscription sh*tware.
  • dang 1145 days ago
    Discussed at the time:

    'I Am Rich' makes author exactly that, does little else - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=268105 - Aug 2008 (13 comments)

    Others?

  • donohoe 1145 days ago
    When this happened I made a web page (for fun) that used its logo and you just bookmarked it to Homescreen.
  • rishabhd 1145 days ago
    I remember this, I feel old now.
  • pmob241 1145 days ago
    Rip a great app
  • HeckFeck 1146 days ago
    The $1000 'I'm rich' application eventually evolved into the $1000 iPhone itself. And the $1000 Apple monitor stand. It's a tautology!
  • caffed 1146 days ago
    I remember when this happened. I think it was just a sprite of a jewel like a ruby or sapphire as of that was it.

    I don’t know if anyone actually bought it. I think the description stated that it really didn’t do anything but was just for bragging rights.

    • alsetmusic 1146 days ago
      All of this was covered in TFA.
  • qwerty456127 1146 days ago
    > I saw this app with a few friends and we jokingly clicked 'buy' thinking it was a joke, to see what would happen.

    It should not be possible to buy anything this expensive with a press of a button. They should ask for additional, confirmations, even call the buyer if it's this much.

    Also unconditional refund should be available for every app during at least some time after it's purchased. I actually had no idea Apple users can't return an app they don't want.

    • mstade 1146 days ago
      Apple does have a refund process for apps and other digital media[1] but the terms seem to differ depending on region. I’ve used it several times, and while it’s not obvious at first, a simple web search led me to the instructions and it’s worked fine the handful of times I’ve had to use it. I’ve had my money refunded within days, no questions asked, even if I’ve used the app. It even worked for subscriptions, though I think it only works if you cancel and ask for a refund before the first renewal.

      [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084

    • eli 1146 days ago
      Pretty sure it does and always did ask for confirmation. The quote doesn’t say “with only one click”
    • 51Cards 1146 days ago
      This was in 2008. I can't remember the functionality of the app store in 2008.
    • nimchimpsky 1146 days ago
      > It should not be possible to buy anything this expensive with a press of a button.

      What he fuck are you talking about.

  • alsetmusic 1146 days ago
    I actually find this pretty interesting, as I read it as further evidence of Apple's inability to properly police the App Store for violations and scams.

    > But Apple couldn't pull it down before curious aristocrats -- eight of them -- had purchased it. Six people from the United States, one from Germany and one from France dropped a grand for the gem in the first 24 hours it was available, Heinrich said.

    This was shortly after the App Store opened, when it was theoretically possible for Apple to have reasonable awareness of its contents and respond to customer feedback. Clearly, the company wanted to protect its customers from getting ripped off. Likely, there were things added to their process for app review to prevent this from happening again in the future. But they can't possibly stay on top of all the edge and corner cases where an inexperienced reviewer misses a detail.

    Am I saying that they can't do better than they do now? No. I'm not excusing their multiple failures. There are lots of obvious scams, such as high-cost subscriptions with dark patterns to induce accidental sign-up. But this sorta makes the case, to me, at least, that some degree of regulation needs to be applied to the industry. And until reading this, I was mostly against government types who don't understand the industry from stepping in.

    • amelius 1146 days ago
      My mom signed up for one such "high-cost" subscription, which cost her $50 in the end (she needed to scan a QR code, went to the App Store and clicked the first app with this functionality). I think if Apple wants to use the argument that the App Store "protects its users", then they should guarantee it, i.e., protection or your money back.
      • gnicholas 1146 days ago
        I've found Apple to be pretty responsive on refunds. If you message them and let them know it was an accidental purchase/renewal that just went through, there's a good chance they'll refund it no-questions-asked.

        If it's been a long time, all bets are off.

        • amelius 1146 days ago
          My mom went to the Apple store (a physical one) and explained the situation but still didn't get her money back.
          • alsetmusic 1146 days ago
            > My mom went to the Apple store (a physical one) and explained the situation but still didn't get her money back.

            I don’t mean to sound contentious, but I think most HN users realize that a retail employee is fairly powerless for things that aren’t retail. A physical store is not the proper channel for such a request. Did you redirect her to file a request online?

            • amelius 1146 days ago
              I am not an Apple customer myself, so I have no idea how Apple works. I assumed that the store employee could redirect her if necessary.
              • alsetmusic 1144 days ago
                > am not an Apple customer myself, so I have no idea how Apple works.

                I think this is BS. It’s not uncommon for me to do a quick web search on behalf of a parent who is less savvy. I typically find what they’re looking for (such as the current COVID vax protocol in their city) on the first attempt. I assume you have the same ability.

                > I assumed that the store employee could redirect her if necessary.

                This is fair. I can see why this might be expected.

              • spaetzleesser 1146 days ago
                This is just BS. As customer you shouldn’t have to know how the company works.
                • kube-system 1146 days ago
                  I agree that you shouldn't have to. But in the world of multinational business, navigating some of the bureaucracy is really a consumer literacy skill. You can easily find yourselves in the same customer-service traps at almost any large company if you misdirect a request. There is no doubt this is not ideal -- but it is nonetheless a nuance of the status quo. Honestly, I think Apple is better about this than their peers.
            • spaetzleesser 1146 days ago
              There should be a clearly defined way for doing this. Right now there are a ton of “maybe” options. Maybe tweeting about it will help, maybe calling will help, maybe having a friend at the company will help, maybe somebody at the Apple Store will help. Or many times, nothing will work and you are screwed.

              There should be a clearly defined way for doing this instead of a faceless, opaque bureaucracy that regular people can’t understand. In this sense big tech is very similar to US healthcare. As user you are pretty much at their mercy. Maybe they feel like helping, maybe not.

              • zepto 1146 days ago
                There is a clearly defined way.

                The invoice email for each app has a link for problems with purchases.

                Every single App purchase has this.

          • gnicholas 1146 days ago
            I think Apple Retail is a separate chain of command from the App Store. There's a website for dealing with App Store purchase problems specifically: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204084
            • PurpleFoxy 1146 days ago
              That may be true but it doesn’t change the story. A user was ripped off by an app hosted by Apple. They then visited a location owned and operated by Apple which claims to give support. And then didn’t receive support.

              It’s not on the user to know the internal management of the company

              • alsetmusic 1146 days ago
                Agreed. But given the audience of HN, the argument appears to be one of bad faith.
    • viraptor 1146 days ago
      > But this sorta makes the case, to me, at least, that some degree of regulation needs to be applied to the industry.

      I don't get it. We've had lots of obvious scam apps available for ages. We've had problem with moderation. We could see lots of faults with both the marketplace and apple's policies.

      But what tips the scale for you was an app which literally said in the description it does nothing and is just a status symbol? It wasn't even trying to trick anyone. Why is that bad in any way?

    • Someone 1146 days ago
      I think this example was so new novel you can’t really blame much Apple for not letting it into the store.

      I think it had (some) merit as a work of art, and didn’t try to scam people. It ‘just’ turned out that people didn’t realize/believe that button signaling “expensive” really meant it.

      I think it’s similar to recalling a child’s toy that turns out to have a dangerous feature. Yes, shops shouldn’t sell those, but sometimes, toys get used in unforeseen ways.