As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick


219 points | by actfrench 12 days ago


  • neonate 12 days ago
  • lacker 12 days ago
    The real danger with cannabis is not that it'll make you sick or have some nasty side effect like this article describes.

    The danger is simply that you will like it, you'll end up using it every day, all different times of the day, and it won't really hurt your health as much as it will make you live your life in a somewhat dopey, detached, less-intelligent way. As time goes on it won't feel "fun" it'll just feel "normal". And you just won't get as much out of your life as you could get, won't achieve as much relationship success, professional success, or personal fulfillment.

    • mesofile 12 days ago
      I thought the way that South Park put it (in the voice of Randy Marsh) many years ago was just about perfect:

      “Well, Stan, the truth is marijuana probably isn't gonna make you kill people, and most likely isn't gonna fund terrorists, but... Well son, pot makes you feel fine with being bored and... It's when you're bored that you should be learning some new skill or discovering some new science or... being creative. If you smoke pot you may grow up to find out that you aren't good at anything.” [0]

      To be clear, I don’t wholly agree, I know too many talented and hard-working stoners, but it does sum up the passive danger of cannabis rather nicely I think.


      • marginalia_nu 12 days ago
        I think this is largely the problem with mobile phones as well. Like you probably aren't going to go mad or get rectangular eyes or whatever, but you can just sort of sedate that sensation of boredom with scrolling reddit or facebook or whatever, which does all of bupkis for making us happy in the long term.
        • blowski 12 days ago
          This is the same argument with all consuming vs producing.

          It's why there was a moral panic in the 1800s over Jane Austen style fiction, in the 1930s over radio, and so on.

          Being addicted to cannabis is not really any different to playing computer games 12 hours a day, doing endless marathons, watching sports, investing, or many similar activities.

          • walleeee 12 days ago
            phones are on a different level than fiction or radio or arguably even cannabis imo

            you can do something else while you listen to the radio or smoke pot (e.g., clean your house, hang out with friends or family, with weed you can even read or program)

            phones and books both consume your attention, but a book at least demands a bit of effort to follow and might introduce you to new ideas or vocabulary, even if you're reading pulp fiction

            on the other hand you can scroll twitter or insta or watch tiktok absolutely mindlessly, and doing so will tend to become a habit all while it chips away at your attention span and your willpower

            weed can make boredom feel ok too, and can certainly affect attention, willpower and memory, but if used in moderation it can also magnify your curiosity and sense of wonder, help you introspect, etc

            cannabis is a powerful entheogen and it deserves far more respect and restraint than it currently receives

            smartphones give us enormous powers but they can also exert massive power over our minds and actions, they too should be treated with caution and used with far more restraint

            cannabis might make you lazy or suggestible, and it can even be dangerous for some people or if used irresponsibly, but it won't spoon feed you mind-melting pablum or ads or propaganda or spy on you

            • autoexec 12 days ago
              If we're going to credit books with potentially expanding your vocabulary, we should at least acknowledge that while you can mindlessly scroll through insta and tiktok you can also be consuming thoughtful and educational content. Even tiktok which doesn't exactly lend itself to useful content has some great stuff.

              Books, TV, the internet, cell phones all have the potential to benefit you. They often don't, but it's not the medium that's the problem, it's our own choices - except the spying on you bit. That's 100% a problem with TV, the internet, cell phones and now even books.

              • a9h74j 12 days ago
                Don't want to contradict your point, just a FWIW ...

                Yesterday I saw a TV ad for Meta suggesting that with VR you will be able to stand in a small conversational circle with Socrates.

                Yea, it will be educational.

                But skepticism aside, with a personal instance of AI some benefits could be significant. Just having a personal AI critic to read your writing and give feedback could be a huge benefit -- or if not your writing, your thought process.

                Queue the spying on you part.

                • autoexec 11 days ago
                  Right? The fact that we have all this cool tech, but it's all actively being used against us instead of working for us really dulls my enthusiasm for technology. What good is it if we get robot butlers or personal AI assistants if the assistants can't keep our personal info to themselves and the robots record everything they see and hear and stream that back to MegaCorp along with extensive telemetry detailing every time we have sex with them? Already we've seen Roombas being used to spy on the people who paid for them, with iRobot Corporation selling maps of the inside of their homes to random 3rd parties.
                  • tim333 11 days ago
                    The benefits often outweigh the 'spying on you', which is usually just targeted ads.
                    • eternalban 11 days ago
                      No, this is not an accurate assessment of what is at stake here.

                      So yeah, targeted ads and spooky tv sets are annoying at the least but the poing is that the infrastructure could easily support 1984 style monitors.

                      Regardless of the purpose of current usage, this is infrastructure for a surveillance society. That is the issue. The infrastructure is not going to go away unless we rip it down [down to and including transport layer] and rebuild with privacy and other human rights protections as a primary requirement of ubiquitous networking. DARPA was not concerned about these matters so all these fall under the 'operators discretion'.

                      • a9h74j 11 days ago
                        machine voice: Your post shows a combined social volatility plus initiative score over 37. Please report to the HappyWellnessCenter for your injections. ... While you are there, the weed is free.
                        • sizzle 10 days ago
                          Their algorithm dispenses a personalized feed that uses soooo much data from your watch preferences alone, regardless of it's permissions. This is so far ahead of user suggestion systems on other platforms, which are generally driven by collaborative filtering. Which inadvertantly is a stopgap for psychological exploitation of users. Other platforms plateau on their information gathering of profile due to the implicit conformity of the exchanges on social media. Not TikTok though.

                          I want to start by saying this isn't your Cold War sheen propaganda. This is Harmonious Society, "river crab" propaganda. This method can belie and camouflage the salient points of persuasion, sure. But it's not only intended to stream a deluge of coercive media. The purpose is to dominate the aesthetic discourse around topics, learning as much about you as they can, while ingratiating their clusters of community norms at the same time. There isn't a monolithic identity either. It's about picking the winners of our long form cultural evolution. Country to country data definitely shows varying preferences, but aside from the initial exposure to determine what clusters you associate with, these feeds are tailored heavily by user interaction.

                          The public description of their process divulges the use of object and character recognition, along with audio/tag keywords, to all items in a video. So even on a virtual machine with no app permissions, this site is making an incredibly detailed profile of your media consumption habits. For example, when you stop watching a video at a certain point, TikTok records what items were in it up to that point making you stay, and what audio/objects occurred at the point of losing interest. This catalog culminates as a set of meticulous preferences that end up correlating to all sorts of useful suggestion information; preferences for video formats(do you like dance videos, rants, or documentary content?), types of speech(language and culture obviously, but also intonation, volume, frequency of use, monologue vs dialogue), length and pacing, even framing of the camera, its all logged and associated with your device and you. Along with this, topics and community clusters are accrued.

                          This goes way beyond blanket brainwashing or disinformation propaganda in it's effectiveness. It's like if a personal interrogator was assigned to billions of people to know every minute detail of their personal media narratives. And at the same time, became a congenial friend who is coaxing all of them to subtlety shift their identities and preferences. Mass media always takes this trend to some degree, but TikTok isolates the individual's identity. (I didn’t write this lol)

                        • autoexec 11 days ago
                          It's not about ads. it's about manipulation and gathering data to be used against you at every and any opportunity. The data that's sold and passed around is used to determine things like how much you pay for things vs your neighbor. It determines what services you are offered and at what terms.

                          If a store thinks I make more money than you, I might for example be told they've got a return policy that is much more generous than what they'll tell you. There are places where you will wait longer on hold, getting repeatedly bumped back to make room for people who have a better "consumer score" than you do.

                          The data is handed over to the state and locked away until it's useful to them. It's can get you arrested or questioned by police when you've committed no crime. It can get you sued for things which should not be crimes but are. It's used by politicians who carve out the borders of their districts specifically to limit the ability for your vote to make any difference.

                          That data is used to target you with lies and misinformation. It allows you to be targeted by extremist groups. It can be used to decide if you get hired or not. You could be turned down for housing because of it. There are millions of things that might prejudice another person against you. Your lifestyle, your politics, your religion, the people you associate with, your sexual history, your medical conditions, etc. You can't know who is accessing your information or for what reason, or know how accurate that data is, or know if/how it is being protected.

                          It's a gross violation of your rights, which yes, sometimes is used to manipulate you into buying something you might not have bought otherwise, but increasingly is used for much much more and once the intimate details of your life have been taken from you, you can never take them back or prevent them from spreading.

                          However much you enjoy the products that are spying you, you can't ever say if the benefits outweigh the costs. You aren't even allowed to know what the costs are or when you are paying for them, and there will never come a time when you have paid in full and it can no longer cost you something else.

                          • a9h74j 11 days ago
                            Ten years ago Sherry Terkel, in Alone Together, described various electronic companions being deployed, even for very young kids. Imagine a dossier/record of all your secret whispers to electronic "friends" recorded from the time you are three years old. As the comments above suggest, the risks go beyond merely violating informed consent.
                          • tim333 10 days ago
                            Much of the stuff you mention like shops treating rich customers better predates tech and just is kind of how the world is. Likewise "arrested or questioned by police when you've committed no crime" happened pre tech and is more a problem with the police and legal system than say facebook leaking what your preferences are. The worst places I've been with real spying where you got arrested/killed for doing the wrong thing were like 1980s China and Myanmar with little tech and many human spies. I'm skeptical tech makes this worse.

                            I mean tech is a double edged sword but I'm guessing the positive like police having a job beating people up without being filmed by some phone outweigh stuff like your roomba uploading your floor plan.

                            • autoexec 10 days ago
                              > Much of the stuff you mention like shops treating rich customers better predates tech and just is kind of how the world is.

                              Of course, human nature and corporate greed don't change. The difference is scale. In the past stores had to know you were rich to treat you better. They weren't checking your bank account balance at the door. Now they can and increasing do exactly that.

                              Same with real spying. Maybe you in 1980s china you had to watch what you said around your neighbors. Today you have to watch what you say while alone in your own home. It's just even just what you say today either, but everything you've said or written over decades that can be mined. You don't have to go to the other side of the globe to see historical examples of how this would have been abused either, Joseph McCarthy would have loved to have this data.

                              Again, the tech isn't the problem. It's great that was can film police abuses. It's great that we have GPS. What we don't have are regulations that prevent the abuse of our data which is collected and disseminated at an unprecedented scale and never goes away. there exists a permanent record of what you've said, what you've done, and everywhere you've been. We're going to see it used to hurt people more and more often. There are already plans to use this data to attack people who have gotten abortions. It could very soon be used against those in homosexual or interracial relationships as those too are now at risk of becoming crimes.

                            • thrixton 10 days ago
                              This is such a dystopian and paranoid view of the system. And unfortunately, I think if it's not totally a reality now, it's one we're heading for as it is the unchecked natural end of our current path.
                              • autoexec 10 days ago
                                Everything I mentioned has already been happening, it's just a matter of scale. It's becoming more common as time goes on. If it hasn't impacted you personally already, it will although you may not be aware of it.

                                If your insurance rates go up next year, you won't be told that it was because people in your area spent more on fast food over the last 6 months than last year. you just get the highe4r bill.

                                What I fear is that we'll end up with a digital caste system where people are treated very differently based on hidden scores that follow them everywhere.

                                • a9h74j 8 days ago
                                  I could be badly misinformed, but I have the sense that the Chinese social credit score system might be relatively open in its criteria, and prosocial, compared to whatever emerges in some other places.

                                  In general, with a more open system, you might also have more hope to redeem yourself, or at least evaluate effective options.

                                  • autoexec 8 days ago
                                    I have heard that China's social credit system isn't all that much different from what we've been developing here in the US, it's just more transparent. At least the person in China who can't board a train to travel knows why. We can have all the same oppression right here at home while our oppressors can boast about how free we all are, how they are empowering us with choices, and how grateful we should be for their benevolence.
                              • sizzle 10 days ago
                                Their algorithm dispenses a personalized feed that uses soooo much data from your watch preferences alone, regardless of it's permissions. This is so far ahead of user suggestion systems on other platforms, which are generally driven by collaborative filtering. Which inadvertantly is a stopgap for psychological exploitation of users. Other platforms plateau on their information gathering of profile due to the implicit conformity of the exchanges on social media. Not TikTok though.

                                I want to start by saying this isn't your Cold War sheen propaganda. This is Harmonious Society, "river crab" propaganda. This method can belie and camouflage the salient points of persuasion, sure. But it's not only intended to stream a deluge of coercive media. The purpose is to dominate the aesthetic discourse around topics, learning as much about you as they can, while ingratiating their clusters of community norms at the same time. There isn't a monolithic identity either. It's about picking the winners of our long form cultural evolution. Country to country data definitely shows varying preferences, but aside from the initial exposure to determine what clusters you associate with, these feeds are tailored heavily by user interaction.

                                The public description of their process divulges the use of object and character recognition, along with audio/tag keywords, to all items in a video. So even on a virtual machine with no app permissions, this site is making an incredibly detailed profile of your media consumption habits. For example, when you stop watching a video at a certain point, TikTok records what items were in it up to that point making you stay, and what audio/objects occurred at the point of losing interest. This catalog culminates as a set of meticulous preferences that end up correlating to all sorts of useful suggestion information; preferences for video formats(do you like dance videos, rants, or documentary content?), types of speech(language and culture obviously, but also intonation, volume, frequency of use, monologue vs dialogue), length and pacing, even framing of the camera, its all logged and associated with your device and you. Along with this, topics and community clusters are accrued.

                                This goes way beyond blanket brainwashing or disinformation propaganda in it's effectiveness. It's like if a personal interrogator was assigned to billions of people to know every minute detail of their personal media narratives. And at the same time, became a congenial friend who is coaxing all of them to subtlety shift their identities and preferences. Mass media always takes this trend to some degree, but TikTok isolates the individual's identity. (I didn’t write this lol)

                        • walleeee 12 days ago
                          I definitely agree there are upsides. I had a Twitter for a while and found a ton of interesting articles, informative accounts, etc. I've learned a ton from YouTube. Sure, some TikTok videos can be helpful.

                          But the idea that the media forms and platforms play no causal role and it's all on us and our choices is nearly indefensible imo

                          • autoexec 11 days ago
                            > But the idea that the media forms and platforms play no causal role and it's all on us and our choices is nearly indefensible imo

                            Some do make it a lot harder to make beneficial choices than others for sure! Some are specifically designed for it.

                        • nradov 12 days ago
                          I use my phone to listen to podcasts and audio books while I exercise.
                      • disqard 12 days ago
                        I'm 90% sure that "endless marathons" referred to "watching entire seasons of shows on NetFlix", not "running 26.2 miles over and over".
                        • nklende 12 days ago
                          I was previously at a place in my life where I compulsively did endurance exercise (including 3 marathons) to keep myself fatigued and numb my feelings. It was not too different to how some people smoke weed or drink, except that everyone in my life thought it was great and healthy. I spent a long time not making some very hard but positive life choices, and now my stomach lining is shot from pounding NSAIDs to keep exercising through joint pain.
                          • thirtyfivecent 12 days ago
                            Count yourself extremely lucky if you know for certain it was caused by NSAIDs. Thats easy to fix compared to a bacterial infection. I have done a two week water fast to let ulcers in my stomach/gut heal in the past with great success.

                            People claim these systems dont shut down as you are still digesting body fat, but they for the most part do shut down and somewhere in doing that they heal very quickly. I have done it a few times (for NSAIDs and other pain killers having done damage to gut and stomach and when i get glutened giving me ulcers in my gut).

                            A benefit is that things like food dont rub against the ulcers which are basically like little cuts and that helps too heal too during the fast. You can go on having pain for months or years trying to deal with them in another way. Remember to dose some losalt for potassium and sodium ( your electrolytes ) while you fast to limit the dizzyness and fatigue. Im not sure magnesium powder would be a good idea due to it being tough on the stomach normally... it would stop the muscle cramps you will get... but it might stop the whole thing working ... i never used it while healing ulcers and lining damage .... but i have more recently when fasting to lose weight and it does make it easier .. magnesium tablets or capsules would be a terrible idea though those are really tough on the stomach and have a lot of added ingredients in the fillers and capsule depending on the company. Smaller fasts would also help. Good luck.

                          • LeSaucy 12 days ago
                            Cannabis and jogging make a lovely combination.
                            • hirvi74 12 days ago
                              I'm not convinced the heart agrees (medically speaking).
                              • akhmatova 12 days ago

                                Based on what it's doing to your lungs and circulatory system, I'd put it more in the "it rocks, until it doesn't" category.

                                • pmoriarty 12 days ago
                                  You don't have to smoke cannabis to use it. You could eat or drink it, which does nothing to your lungs, afaik.
                                  • akhmatova 12 days ago
                                    As is widely known. It's also the decidedly less popular route of intake.
                              • Werewolf255 12 days ago
                                That runner's high is something else after the 104th mile!
                                • ghostbrainalpha 12 days ago
                                  Although if you are a good runner, I've heard moderate cannabis usage can help bring on the runners high much quicker making running more fun.
                                  • aaaaaaaaata 11 days ago
                                    "Stuff that makes serotonin is known to increase the onset of effects of serotonin."
                                • RajT88 12 days ago
                                  As a (mostly former) distance runner. Running endless marathons is most certainly not harmless. You will face eventually injuries which affect you for the rest of your life.
                                  • ChristianGeek 12 days ago
                                    I’m a distance runner too; I try to distance myself from running.
                                    • nradov 12 days ago
                                      There's distance and then there's distance. You can be a serious endurance athlete but focus on shorter races, with judicious use of low-impact cross training to reduce the risk of injuries while still building an aerobic base.
                                      • RajT88 12 days ago
                                        I only have done a few marathon or longer races. When I was running regularly I would do 25-30 miles a week.

                                        It is doing that for decades which messes you up eventually.

                                        • nradov 11 days ago
                                          It really depends on running form and individual physiology. Some runners are more resilient than others, and using good technique makes a major difference in injury risk.

                                          But my point is that you can run reasonably fast in races with fairly low running mileage. Do most of the base and tempo workouts cross training on an elliptical machine or something, and save the running for interval workouts.

                                          • RajT88 8 days ago
                                            > It really depends on running form and individual physiology

                                            True enough. I too have read "Born to Run", and would suggest that most modern humans aren't adapted to it (certain populations certainly, but most not). Although I have hit reasonably good times, I don't count myself among that population. In high school and in my 30's, I certainly was in the 90th percentile of runners, just by the numbers. Individual races, definitely higher. I love to look at the form and economy of top tier runners, and frankly, I'm not built like that; I could never perform like that. I'm bound to break down eventually, and I'm pretty good at running.

                                            > on an elliptical machine or something

                                            This is not running. This is training for running by not-running. Dress it up how you like, but it's how people like me save the damaging work for races.

                                    • marginalia_nu 12 days ago
                                      Some of those moral panics did lead to action though.

                                      Hard drugs, alcohol, gambling, duels; a lot of this stuff is if not banned then at least restricted and regulated.

                                      • edmundsauto 12 days ago
                                        That’s not a clear win, as in some cases the cure proved worse than the disease. And was co-opted for goals around discrimination.
                                        • yeahNo88 12 days ago
                                          Yeah the cure industrialists limiting personal freedom by lobbying government for the greater good.

                                          Are we not tired of that story? So what if humanity does not go to Mars? Is dad going to be unhappy about our efforts when everyone is dead?

                                          Our culture is a joke of wishful thinking and emotional abuse to achieve someone else’s goals disguised as essential application of agency.

                                          How terrible if humans lived a completely different agency than kowtowing to yesteryears industrial necessity to rebuild the world after humanity destroyed it.

                                          Grigori Perelman has achieved more of note than any of us; I know about his accomplishments and none of yours. He did it all with paper and pencil. IMO our low effort consumerism and industrialist slog is destroying our imaginations and keeping us from better ideas.

                                      • tsol 12 days ago
                                        Drugs are functionally different, I'd argue. You can quit games any time without pain, given enough mental resolve or motivation. No matter how good a reason it is you still have to deal with physical withdrawal when it comes to drugs
                                        • hmmdar 12 days ago
                                          I found this a good review of the physical and chemical impact quitting marijuana.

                                          I'd argue that the chemical withdrawal effects of marijuana, are nothing compared to habitual smoking, alcohol or other "hard" drug use. But there are still some chemical withdrawal effects.

                                          Personally I've had Minor irritability after not having an edible for a few days if I've been consistently having them nearly daily for few days. But I've also realized this, and moderate use more to only once or twice a week, and only 5-10mg at a time. I've grown to like the feel of 5mg in the evening overall. Accounting for the blah feeling the next morning/day.

                                          • elevaet 12 days ago
                                            I thought it was pretty well known by now that there isn't really any physical withdrawl with cannabis; it's basically just mental.
                                          • lostmsu 12 days ago
                                            I'd say marathons and computer games (except the clickers) should not be on this list due to the difference between active vs passive participation.
                                            • oneoff786 12 days ago
                                              Clickers are better than people give credit. Thinking about growth curves is an uncommon challenge. Pretty much nothing else commonly involves things expanding faster than exponentially. You don’t actually just click mindlessly. You typically need an understanding of the system otherwise you’re just waiting for infeasible amounts of time.
                                              • dTal 12 days ago
                                                As far as I'm concerned, the clicker genre reached its zenith, its purest expression, in Universal Paperclips. In no other game has the "automate exponential growth" mechanic been used to tell a story more poignantly, or make philosophical points so eloquently. Other clicker games use flashy graphics and sound effects to disguise their essential emptiness; not Universal Paperclips. Its austere plaintext webpage offers only hints and fragments of the world the numbers are meant to represent, its minimalism a baleful commentary on the subject matter itself.

                                                I played it twice, and do not regret it.

                                            • shrimp_emoji 12 days ago
                                              >computer games 12 hours a day

                                              I've heard professors say something to the effect of "students a decade or two ago used to be more productive". I don't have trouble believing that; so would I (I think) without the potency of modern entertainment. It's harder to do stuff while eating such good electric lotuses. :p

                                              • akhmatova 12 days ago
                                                Being addicted to cannabis is not really any different [from non-chemical habits]

                                                On a psychological level, perhaps. But it is pretty obviously not so when it comes to physical risk (if one smokes in whichever form).

                                                • beowulfey 12 days ago
                                                  No, but currently cannabis use is the one exploding in popularity compared to those others
                                                  • andi999 12 days ago
                                                    Maybe they all were right.
                                                  • dogman144 12 days ago
                                                    agreed. I started bookmarking a specific open source repo and automechanic wiki and I’m slowly conditioning myself to read those if I want to waste time on my phone. I enjoy reading them anyway as much (or a lot more) than Reddit or w/e, just needed to make it habitual bc I didn’t think about going to those as a first stop to get lost in. Def helps and returns the joy of having internet access, lot of cool stuff to learn.
                                                  • ruined 12 days ago
                                                    thanks for reminding me that's enough hn for today
                                                    • dbtc 12 days ago
                                                      • bennysomething 12 days ago
                                                        That's a really good point. I never thought of it that way.
                                                      • SoftTalker 12 days ago
                                                        Can confirm.

                                                        Two of my kids use THC pretty regularly and they seem content with a life that is paying the bills but not really leading anywhere.

                                                        The third does not (AFAIK) and is on a much higher trajectory.

                                                        All had pretty much the same upbringing, rules, experiences, and discipline.

                                                        I've never used it, so don't have personal experience.

                                                        • nshung 12 days ago
                                                          To me, a life that is in content and has meaning trumps all those whatever higher trajectory means. I mean.. isn’t achieving those higher trajectories the goal of being content and having achieve the meaning if it exits at all?
                                                          • worker_person 12 days ago
                                                            Watching your child being content to work at Taco Bell for the next 50 years is not something to be proud of. Regardless of contentment.
                                                            • Taywee 12 days ago
                                                              I'd be proud of it, if they were a good person, took care of themselves, took care of the people around them, and were truly happy in their lives. Some people are perfectly happy working low-level positions in restaurants, sanitation, retail, and the like for their lives, and maybe maintaining a few hobbies and relationships that give them personal meaning off their work hours.

                                                              It's only a problem if they aren't actually content. I've known tons of people working minimum wage who sneer at "elites", don't seek higher things, and get high all the time, but really resent the fact that they never did anything with their lives. They don't build their hobbies, they don't seek higher levels of employment or skill, and they constantly talk about how they want to do great things that they never do.

                                                              There will always be an infinite amount of achievement that you never accomplished. There will always be an infinite number of things you never did. The best thing you can do is prioritize, accomplish the things that you really want to accomplish, and try to do your best to be happy with what you are able to do. Live your life happily, and make the people around you happy.

                                                              • tempestn 12 days ago
                                                                What if we took a more extreme version of this? Like your kid builds and sells a startup (this being HN), so now they're set for life financially, and they decide what they'll do with it is buy a lifetime supply of heroin, hire a caretaker to take care of their basic needs, and basically get high indefinitely. They're happy, they're not hurting anybody, they're even providing a living for someone. Assume they're perfectly happy too. Is that good?

                                                                I mean, you can certainly argue that the meaning of life is entirely arbitrary, and there is indeed nothing wrong with that if that's what someone wants to do. But I feel like the world is generally a better place when people in it strive for more than mere contentment. And for me personally, a couple of the key things that give life positive meaning are building relationships with other people, and striving to better myself—learning things, building skills, etc. I'm glad I do these things, rather than living an alternate life where I was equally (or maybe even if I were somehow more) subjectively happy, but less active.

                                                                • Miraste 12 days ago
                                                                  > I'd be proud of it, if they were a good person, took care of themselves, took care of the people around them, and were truly happy in their lives

                                                                  I'd be happy for them. I wouldn't be proud. An infinite amount of possible achievements is no excuse not to strive for anything.

                                                                  • autoexec 12 days ago
                                                                    > An infinite amount of possible achievements is no excuse not to strive for anything.

                                                                    If they're striving for happiness and they are happy, mission accomplished right? I assume they'd still have their own goals and hobbies outside of work or things which bring in money. Why assume those things don't matter?

                                                                    • Miraste 12 days ago
                                                                      I didn’t say anything about work. I know people with interesting and worthwhile accomplishments or hobbies outside the field of career advancement. This is great and I’d be pleased if my child found something, money or no, to pursue passionately. I also know people (stoners being overrepresented) who are completely passive consumers watching life drift by, who only play games/watch shows and don’t do anything creative or challenging. It’s not a lifestyle I would take pride in. I don’t mean that as an attack, exactly - pride is earned, and to earn it you have to actually do something.
                                                                      • autoexec 12 days ago
                                                                        that's fair enough. I've never met anyone (stoner or not) who wasn't striving for something. I mean, in some cases it might not have been more than status in an MMO guild, or building/maintaining collections, or personal writing, but everybody I've ever met has something they're into and love doing.

                                                                        I can't even imagine what a life of passive, mindless, consumption without any creative outlet would even be like. It's frankly depressing to think about!

                                                                      • a9h74j 12 days ago
                                                                        FWIW, I have heard it said that the people who always expected to work at hourly-wage level are happier than the the college graduates next to them who didn't.
                                                                        • autoexec 11 days ago
                                                                          I'll bet the lack of so much student debt helps a lot!
                                                                        • missedthecue 12 days ago
                                                                          doped into stupefaction is not exactly a scenario I'd describe as "striving for happiness"
                                                                      • blazingfrog2 12 days ago
                                                                        > I'd be proud of it, if they were a good person, took care of themselves

                                                                        I honestly don't know how anyone (good person or not) can properly take care of themselves on a Taco Bell hourly salary.

                                                                        • palmetieri2000 12 days ago
                                                                          Yes, It is the workers fault that they do not get enough funds to properly take care of themselves while working full time.

                                                                          Really dumb take.

                                                                          • blobbers 12 days ago
                                                                            It is possible that some jobs are meant to be stepping stones, not permanent positions (ie: you outgrow them, and someone lower on the learning totem pole steps into the role for a time).
                                                                            • palmetieri2000 12 days ago
                                                                              Absolutely, and you should be paid enough to properly take care of yourself while you have those positions.
                                                                              • vineyardmike 12 days ago
                                                                                So I absolutely agree with your opinion, and I think everyone should be paid a livable wage and should be able to live a meaningful life off their work pay.

                                                                                That said, I think the argument of “stepping stone” job salaries is less crazy in the context of people who are dépendants of other adults. If you’re a teen and you live with parents who provide food and housing and basics like that, you’re needs from the wages are different. Plenty of jobs make sense as “silly shit teens do for spending money” that would also be considered “awful life for full time adult worker”. Some of these jobs only exist because there are short term employees willing to do it for low pay. It’s fine IMO that they exist but it’d be wrong to assume that an adult should have to live of it.

                                                                                I think we should push for livable wages and ensure everyone can be happy and healthy from their salary. I don’t know if it’s even possible to protect the adults in “low skill” jobs without making it hard to have “stupid summer part time jobs” for teens. If it is possible, then we should allow those teens to have their dumb low pay jobs and not raise too much of a fuss.

                                                                                • smileysteve 12 days ago
                                                                                  This seems to be from the view point of a top percent home.

                                                                                  35 million Americans are on snap. 53 million Americans used a food pantry in 2021 (thesev groups don't always intersect)

                                                                                  Whether it's urban, rural, or suburban (high percentage shift since 2008), the percent of Americans that have parents that can provide food, shelter - much less plan for education and their own retirement is not a very high number for this phrasing.

                                                                                  Imagine if the expectation was that a part time fast food job could pay even half of college expenses.

                                                                                  • autoexec 12 days ago
                                                                                    > I don’t know if it’s even possible to protect the adults in “low skill” jobs without making it hard to have “stupid summer part time jobs” for teens.

                                                                                    Why not just limit some jobs or minimum wages to teens who can demonstrate that they're already financially supported? Most people earning minimum wage are adults, but we could require companies to pay adults or teens supporting themselves higher wages. We could also set age limits on certain types of work, but then you run the risk of not having enough kids looking for work with everything else they've got going on.

                                                                                  • lazide 12 days ago
                                                                                    ‘Should’ != ‘is’ or ‘will be’.
                                                                                  • bobkazamakis 7 days ago
                                                                                    >It is possible that some jobs are meant to be stepping stones, not permanent positions

                                                                                    Those same jobs definitely only operate outside of school hours, to help promote their employees growth, right?

                                                                                  • fshbbdssbbgdd 12 days ago
                                                                                    Is the implication that we should promote cannabis to help people be content living low on the hierarchy in capitalism? Whose side are we on here?
                                                                                  • txsoftwaredev 12 days ago
                                                                                    They wouldn't be able too. It's a great job for a high school kid or one with a low IQ that has limited options to start with. But it should be temporary to teach you how to be responsible, show up on time, do your job correctly, etc.
                                                                                  • jokethrowaway 12 days ago
                                                                                    You can be proud of achievements.

                                                                                    The harder the achievement, the harder it is to automate that achievement, the prouder I will be.

                                                                                    Working at Taco Bell is not that hard to obtain and may very well not exist in 10 years.

                                                                                  • monktastic1 12 days ago
                                                                                    Everyone is focusing on whether being content with working at Taco Bell is sufficient in life, but I think the more interesting question is whether they truly are content. That's not for me to answer, but if the South Park quote has any truth (and I think it has more than a little), in 50 years' time, they themselves might not be happy with how things went in retrospect. In that case, it's possible they weren't really content all that time, but were using weed to avoid deeply feeling that discontent.

                                                                                    I say this as someone with at least a little experience, not to be judgmental.

                                                                                    • swatcoder 12 days ago
                                                                                      > in 50 years' time, they themselves might not be happy with how things went in retrospect

                                                                                      There are moments in later life where everyone feels that way.

                                                                                      Statistically, some paths might be show up in studies as more reliable in terms of late life contentment, but on an individual level, we all end up noticing that we left a lot of doors unopened, and can find ourselves stuck wishing we made different choices or had different opportunities.

                                                                                      Innumerable careerists and dedicated parents and globe-trotters find themselves stuck discontent, bitter, or resentful. And innumerable people of all paths look back, wonder what could have been different, and reconcile themselves to contentment again. And heck — some people just die before reaching their goals at all.

                                                                                      There’s no point speculating whether the chill dude at the Taco Bell is doing it right. They know themselves better than any of us do, and may easily end up more durably content than any of us.

                                                                                      • 2-718-281-828 12 days ago
                                                                                        > There are moments in later life where everyone feels that way.

                                                                                        old Successful Career guy: should have spent more time with family and friends <starts sobbing>

                                                                                        old Poor Artist guy: should have worked harder and more conservative then I could have afforded a house, now I have to rent <gets all whiney>


                                                                                        the question is the mental state developed. are you somebody who regrets everything and is never happy with what you have because you alwaya need more? or are you able to be grateful and enjoy calmly small things and accept how life is?

                                                                                        • monktastic1 12 days ago
                                                                                          > There’s no point speculating whether the chill dude at the Taco Bell is doing it right.

                                                                                          I agree, but I think there is value in speculating whether the contentment we feel on weed is really just distraction from discontent. This applies to far more than just weed, of course, but my own experience is that weed is particularly tricky in this regard.

                                                                                          • swatcoder 12 days ago
                                                                                            Sure, and you could raise exactly the same question to all the people on prescribed psychiatric regimens. They all come with tradeoffs and change the nature of how we experience our lives. That's the point of them.

                                                                                            I don't have the insight to guess whether George should prefer to be skinnier and hornier but too depressed to meet his career goals, any more than it's my business to guess that Jane should put down the blunts and be more tuned in with all the drama in the news.

                                                                                            I'm busy enough trying to make those choices for myself.

                                                                                            • monktastic1 12 days ago
                                                                                              That's fair, and I think it is also responsible to share our experiences with these things with others. Mine (and friends') is that weed is especially insidious in this regard, but it is indeed up to each person to decide for themselves.
                                                                                        • braindead_in 11 days ago
                                                                                          > but I think the more interesting question is whether they truly are content.

                                                                                          That's a big rabbit hole right there. Ancient wisdom says that there's nothing in the material world which can give you true happiness/contentment/satisfaction. The world is transient and so is the happiness you get from it. Moksha/Nirvana/Samadhi is the only way to become truly happy, forever.

                                                                                          Weed invariably leads you to such questions. No wonder it's the gateway drug to spirituality.

                                                                                          • gowld 12 days ago
                                                                                            People who ruined their lives with hard work and stress to make a billionaire richer while buying a useless polluting fancy car and big house, also have regrets.
                                                                                            • monktastic1 12 days ago
                                                                                              Absolutely! And if we can identify factors which lead to us behaving in ways that make us feel such regrets, then this can help us lead better lives. Obviously weed isn't the only culprit.
                                                                                          • Volundr 12 days ago
                                                                                            Why not? My first job was Wendy's and honestly... It's not the least satisfying job I've had. My unwillingness to do it now has more to do with having become accustomed to the luxury that comes with a software developer salary than anything negative about fast food (same reason I won't go back to being a security guard, which was hands down the best job I ever had).

                                                                                            I feel like there's a strong argument to be made that the person working at Taco Bell and is satisfied with their life is better off than a random cube dweller slowly losing their soul in the name of material comforts.

                                                                                            • jokethrowaway 12 days ago
                                                                                              Maybe you can pull off security guard and software development at the same time! It's something I always joked about doing - but that was before everyone and their dog became remote.

                                                                                              Nowadays software development is so meeting heavy that nothing gets done but you're "working" all the time.

                                                                                              • yw3410 12 days ago
                                                                                                What did you enjoy about being a security guard?
                                                                                                • Volundr 12 days ago
                                                                                                  A bit of context that might be important: Most of my time spent as a security guard was spent either taking the closing shift at an outlet mall on the outskirts of town, or a night or weekend shift at a large office building. I rarely did things like work at a busy mall during the day.

                                                                                                  The best part frankly was that there was so little I actually needed to do. I filled out a few forms, I walked the whole site X times of Y period (usually once every 1-2 hours, but depended on the site). Beyond that I was largely just expected to be at my post, reasonably alert and professional looking. My time was my own to do homework, study, read, program, or whatever. I realize that a job without anything to do is a nightmare for some people, but I've never had a problem filling my own time.

                                                                                                  Other pros:

                                                                                                  * I knew my regular sites almost like my home. Sure during they day there were tons of people, but by the night/weekend when I took over, I was basically the only person in the building and it felt like it was mine.

                                                                                                  * Eating lunch on the roof overlooking the city.

                                                                                                  * Some of the chillest co-workers I've ever met, from the maintenance crew to the other guards.

                                                                                                  * 12-hours shifts meant I was usually only working 3 days a week.

                                                                                                  * On holidays me and the maintenance guy would have private movie showings in the building auditorium.


                                                                                                  * 99% boring, but when things get exciting they get real exciting. Only time I've had guns pointed in my direction, and they were cops.

                                                                                                  * I think getting off work and going to bed a 7 a.m. for years has permanently kind of borked my sleep.

                                                                                              • pessimizer 12 days ago
                                                                                                It's this kind of motivation that fuels the efforts to make sure low-level jobs stay unpleasant, unsafe, and uncompensated. It's the "starter job" philosophy, where some jobs are only fit for an inferior class of people who should have no pride, although they produce and distribute almost everything material that we use. Children, immigrants, foreigners...

                                                                                                I'm reminded every day that my decision to never work with my hands again was a good one. Nobody respects people who provide for you, that's slave's work, mother's work(, teacher's work, nurse's work.) The ultimate CEO-guru would lie on a cushion all day, being washed and shaved by his VPs, periodically emitting syllables in an unknown language that would be interpreted by other VPs as commands to direct the people who actually do the work.

                                                                                                • jjulius 12 days ago
                                                                                                  You're assuming that the two content children work at Taco Bell. For all you know they could have a (to whatever degree) higher-paying job doing literally anything else yet still be content with where they're at.
                                                                                                  • 2-718-281-828 12 days ago
                                                                                                    not sure what stereotype you have in mind but I don't see why this should be something keeping a parent from being proud. it's simple, yet honest work and that's about it. so what? not everybody wants or has to be a surgeon ffs
                                                                                                    • txsoftwaredev 12 days ago
                                                                                                      But taco bell is the pinnacle of your kid's career ambition? I know as a parent I'd be very disappointed.
                                                                                                      • namose 12 days ago
                                                                                                        Not a parent, but I’d personally be more proud as a parent of a Taco Bell cook than, e.g. adtech or a high frequency trading firm (of course, sometimes these places are great for training or getting a name on a resume, but if that was my child’s career ambition I’d be sad). The only issue I would have would be whether they’re making enough to support their other goals.
                                                                                                        • jjulius 11 days ago
                                                                                                          I'm a parent. Yeah, Taco Bell isn't "ideal". But hey, is my kid happy? Are they keeping their life together? Are they staying out of trouble? Are their bills paid?

                                                                                                          If the answer to all of those questions - especially the first - is yes, then I am happy. Of course I will push them to strive for more than that, but what they do with their lives when they leave the house is up to them, and at a bare minimum, I just want them to be happy with whatever they choose.

                                                                                                          • 2-718-281-828 11 days ago
                                                                                                            if "career ambitions" are a major part of how you value your children then you are the one with a problem.
                                                                                                            • txsoftwaredev 7 days ago
                                                                                                              We homeschool our three children and put in a lot of time and effort to prepare them to provide for themselves. Do I care of they become the CEO of a company? Of course not but I do want them to achieve what they are capable of. I know my kids and their abilities. Taco bell is not their pinnacle.
                                                                                                        • s5300 12 days ago

                                                                                                          Billions across the world would be incredibly happy with their kids getting to do something like this.

                                                                                                          If you aren’t happy with a content child, sounds like you had children for all of the wrong reasons & would be a horrible, potentially abusive parent.

                                                                                                          • monktastic1 12 days ago
                                                                                                            I understand the underlying sentiment, but this is an awfully aggressive way to get your point across. The irony is that we tend to be aggressive when we're triggered due to unresolved traumas in ourselves -- which we then pass on to our own kids.

                                                                                                            I'm not here to psychoanalyze you, but food for thought.

                                                                                                            • gowld 12 days ago
                                                                                                              Fair, but the context was a parent publicly shaming their children for living peaceful, eco-friendly, simple lives, which is far worse.
                                                                                                            • gunfighthacksaw 12 days ago
                                                                                                              My friend who is a (really smart) SWE in Canada said that compared to his own country, he could live here on a fast food salary, smoke weed, make music and still have a better life than his home country.

                                                                                                              We forget that a job where you get free food and a low wage for simple work is (historically speaking) extremely luxurious.

                                                                                                            • plutonorm 12 days ago
                                                                                                              Of course it is.
                                                                                                              • nshung 12 days ago
                                                                                                                Why not?
                                                                                                                • rtp4me 12 days ago
                                                                                                                  Because at some point, the $9.50/hr job at Taco Bell will run its course, and your child will end up with severely limited resources. Together with a lack of funding and poor health care options, your children will probably return back home to "evaluate their situation". At that point, they will start wondering why they have been left behind in society, why the system is rigged against them, etc.

                                                                                                                  As we all know (and frequently discussed here on HN), a minimal wage job results in limited housing options, limited healthcare options, limited educational options, etc. As a parent, it is my responsibility to prepare my children to become self sufficient beyond the minimum wage job. For the sake of themselves and their children.

                                                                                                                  • gowld 12 days ago
                                                                                                                    Why would you want someone to never learn that the system is rigged against them? So they blame themselves for their oppression?

                                                                                                                    Millions of people will never rise above minmim wage jobs.

                                                                                                                    Why fix that for one person ,and not for all?

                                                                                                                    A Taco Bell worker probably has more free energy and intrest for tackling big problems like protesting against the oligarchs.

                                                                                                                    • worker_person 12 days ago
                                                                                                                      This is garbage. Work hard, plan hard, save money. Push through setbacks. Maybe you won't be a billionaire. But you can do pretty well in life. Don't blame others for your own laziness.

                                                                                                                      Just met a guy last month that spent 5 years working at a carwash at minimum wage. He saved up money the entire time. Got himself a van decked for mobile cleaning. He still works hard, but is making some serious money now.

                                                                                                                      Seen far more that just collect welfare checks, smoke pot and play videos or watch tv for 16 hours a day, while blaming "whomever" for their situation.

                                                                                                                      • wruza 12 days ago
                                                                                                                        This descent from a job that pays bills to stereotypical taco bell to welfare checks had no premise in this subthread. Aren’t you by chance just angry at someone else who is not rushing to make your own American dream come true?
                                                                                                                        • diffeomorphism 11 days ago
                                                                                                                          This is garbage. If a system is rigged, you try to improve it. You are just giving up and try to rationalize your inaction with fantasy stories.
                                                                                                                        • rtp4me 12 days ago
                                                                                                                          Because they are not oppressed and the system is not rigged against them (at least in the US). Each person has plenty of opportunity to do better. It's all about choice. You can choose to stay with your low-paying job or put some effort into getting educated and move up. The key here is "effort".

                                                                                                                          And, the comment that millions of people will never rise above minimum wage jobs is laughable. With the amount of free/low-cost education (community college, free on-line classes, military GI Bill), and the huge shortage of skilled trade workers [0], anyone in the US can do better than minimum wage. It just takes effort.


                                                                                                                  • julianlam 12 days ago
                                                                                                                    It's a nice line of thinking, sure—that you can achieve happiness and contentment without having to strive for the "best".

                                                                                                                    That's the whole point of the matter though, isn't it, that if you don't have ambition, then you voluntarily get yourself stuck in a rut of your making. "I'm content in that my life is shitty in X or Y way, but cannot do anything about it".

                                                                                                                    There was a time when I found comfort in thinking that I would grow up to be "comfortably middle class". My parents disabused me of that notion, and now that I am at that stage, I feel as though there is so much more I can learn and do, instead of clocking in and out day after day.

                                                                                                                    But hey, if you find happiness in working at a gas station or something, maybe you are more enlightened than I am.

                                                                                                                    • lovehashbrowns 12 days ago
                                                                                                                      I don’t understand the thought process of putting someone down based on what they do for a living. Particularly when it just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. The world around you revolves around people that clock in and out day after day. Maybe one day we’ll have 7.5 billion CEOs in the world, huh?
                                                                                                                      • blazingfrog2 12 days ago
                                                                                                                        > I don’t understand the thought process of putting someone down based on what they do for a living

                                                                                                                        Discounting the counter productive condescension required to be the one putting the other guy down, we should all be honest with a simple fact: any typical software dev (just talking about what I know) can succeed at a gas station job while the reverse is not true. This obviously does not afford the software dev the right to be a jerk to anybody (up or down the ladder).

                                                                                                                        • lovehashbrowns 12 days ago
                                                                                                                          I know I couldn’t do it. I’m good when it comes to tech stuff because it clicks with my brain and I enjoy it. I’ve worked these sorta jobs before. I did a bit of construction for a summer, and I worked a catering job for a few years. Chicago’s summer heat, humid, standing in front of an open flame for 6-12 hours—absolutely not. I came home utterly destroyed. The person I worked for absolutely loves it, though. He’s self-employed, works only on the weekends, is immensely proud of the food he cooks, and has been doing it for decades. Great guy to work for. If you wanna get paid cash and you love cooking, that’s a great job. I would absolutely never ever look down on someone that’s putting in work like that. Me personally, I’m not physically or mentally equipped for that sorta work long-term. And that’s fine.
                                                                                                                          • Adraghast 12 days ago
                                                                                                                            I would pay very good money to watch you spend a Valentine’s Day working at a restaurant.
                                                                                                                            • gowld 12 days ago
                                                                                                                              Many, perhaps most, software devs, would utterly fail at a job that had customers, regular hours, physical labor, etc.
                                                                                                                              • hirvi74 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                I worked in grocery stores with people that I would argue are smarter than many of the devs I have worked with. My old manager when I was younger and working in a grocery store was on a path to be a medical doctor, but changed paths after his friend killed himself from the the stress of medical school.

                                                                                                                                Intelligence is only one of the many variables needed to succeed in certain occupations.

                                                                                                                                • throwaway675309 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                  It's absolutely perplexing to me that people seem to think that it's blindly OK to generalize purely anecdotal data as absolute objective truth.

                                                                                                                                  Although you have zero supporting evidence for this fatuous assertion, you're perfectly fine with passing it off as empirical data. If you actually took the time to speak to your average software dev particularly in America, you would find that it's more likely that they've worked customer facing retail when they were younger. These are pretty much the only types of jobs that are available during high school. I myself have worked at Walmart, Blockbuster video, Chick-fil-A, and as a landscaper during the summers. None of it was particularly taxing - although it was extremely tedious at times and often boring.

                                                                                                                                  And while we're on the subject of anecdotal data I would say on the order of at least 60 to 70% of software devs that I've worked with in the past were actually in relatively good shape physically and usually were very conscientious about their diet and maintaining regular exercise.

                                                                                                                                  We really need to be filtering people back to Reddit.

                                                                                                                              • elevaet 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                Completely agree about not putting people down.

                                                                                                                                But I do think the world is a better place with more "CEOs" running independent taco joints, and less Tacobells.

                                                                                                                                • emmo 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                  And these independent taco joints would be staffed by...?
                                                                                                                                  • wruza 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                    AI/ML, AR/VR, IoT, blockchain, microservices, data science, API, of course.
                                                                                                                                    • elevaet 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                      The CEO him/herself, and some employees who are working for cool boss with their hands on the tools, instead of some suit from Tacobell.

                                                                                                                                      Nothing wrong with working for someone, that wasn't my claim.

                                                                                                                                • nshung 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                  "I'm content in that my life is shitty in X or Y way, but cannot do anything about it".

                                                                                                                                  What is “shitty” in this context?

                                                                                                                                • elif 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                  A zen master is alone in his mountain retreat wherever he stands. A life spent seeking further material enrichment or inner personal development will inevitably build a mansion of a self, requiring increasing maintenance and becoming even more difficult to live outside of, let alone deconstruct.

                                                                                                                                  It is much easier to accomplish a universal perspective when you have much less 'self' to suppress. That's been the nature of monks of all variety for all of human history. I don't think it's a coincidence or disadvantage that cannabis enthusiasts have a less-selfish mentality.

                                                                                                                                  • nradov 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                    Contentment is overrated. Contentment is a path to stagnation and decay. It's more important to achieve something of lasting value, even if that means a certain amount of angst and dissatisfaction along the way.
                                                                                                                                    • tomatotomato37 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                      Life naturally slows you down with age. Without enough momentum built up during your early years you may burn out and crash before you reach the end
                                                                                                                                    • Psyonic 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                      I have seen this, but on the flip-side, the most successful person I know (and they are quite successful) is also the biggest stoner I know.
                                                                                                                                      • elevaet 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                        I've also met some extremely productive weed smokers. It seems like most people become lulled into a hazey life, but there are these idiosyncratic responders who smoke copious amounts and are fully on top of their game.
                                                                                                                                        • autoexec 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                          I think it's equally possible that lazy people who smoke will be lazy and people who are active and always doing stuff will continue to do that even if they smoke. The temptation to be lazy might be greater for the few hours they're high, but not everyone will give into that every time and every other hour of the day they're doing what they'd normally do.
                                                                                                                                      • davewritescode 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                        I’ve been using cannabis my whole life and I’m fairly successful. I have a nice house, healthy savings, nice cars and a lovely family.

                                                                                                                                        Who know, maybe I’m not meeting my full potential but I really do enjoy life and cannabis helps.

                                                                                                                                        I’ve struggle with anxiety and insomnia my whole life and medical cannabis allows me to “turn off” in a way that a lot less damaging than other medications I’ve taken.

                                                                                                                                        • lovemenot 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                          >> The third does not (AFAIK) and is on a much higher trajectory.

                                                                                                                                          Depends on one's definition of higher, I guess.

                                                                                                                                          • Aksakal17 9 days ago
                                                                                                                                            Yes, still illegal. And I also don’t understand why it is equated with drugs, but alcohol is not! Not a single murder has yet been committed under cannabis, not a single war has been unleashed. It's just that people who don't use don't understand how oh the effect of it is!
                                                                                                                                            • plmu 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                              Another data point here: 2 kids, the one who uses (a lot) of THC is more successful, got a physics masters degree and had a 40% side-job during most of bachelor/masters phase.
                                                                                                                                              • seadan83 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                Correlation implies causation here? That is one place where and why this is all so tricky..
                                                                                                                                              • daveslash 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                Yeah. I used the same schpeel (or something similar), with my kid when we found out she was smoking at 15. You know ~ it's not heroine or cocaine, but it can make you content to just do nothing, when you'd be happier doing something.

                                                                                                                                                Sometimes "do nothing" is exactly what we need in this crazy, hectic, busy world. Sometimes it's good to be bored. But keep it in check. Also, I have no problem with adults partaking, but kids with their developing brains ~ that's another story in my mind.

                                                                                                                                              • jamal-kumar 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                I think it's a substance that can lend itself really well to the creative aspects if used in moderation and with something like taking continuous notes so you don't lose those thoughts and ideas.

                                                                                                                                                I've come up with some really great stuff while moderately stoned, and while I don't consume it on a daily anymore, I can't understate the importance of having some way of recording those thoughts as soon as you come up with them be it a notepad, notepad.exe or even a voice recorder if logging things on paper or text isn't your thing because it tends to mess with your short term memory enough to forget whatever interesting point of view you've arrived on within a minute or so. I think I learned this from comedians actually, George Carlin used to work like this. I bet there's plenty of writers on South Park and may other comedy shows who do, too.

                                                                                                                                                Obviously taking it on a wake-and-bake basis throughout the day is going to give you problems though. Don't use it like that unless you're trying to manage serious illness like to keep your chemotherapy meds down or arthritis or whatever. Hell I don't even drink caffeine on a daily anymore because I find WAY more utility out of it once every couple of weeks or so. Oh yeah and if I'm going to agree with anything in this article it's that extracts are kinda too turbo, but I've also tried them in small amounts in drinks (Around 5-10mg) and that was pretty amazing compared to smoking in terms of lack of side effects from inhaling crap.

                                                                                                                                                • xvedejas 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                  Drug use can be a good excuse to put some time aside to let your mind wander, so I see why people end up getting creative on THC. And if you practice creativity while stoned, it makes sense that you'll be more creative while stoned. Like my friend who learned to juggle high, and yet cannot do it when he's sober.
                                                                                                                                                  • jamal-kumar 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                    I think it's a bit more than that. It makes your mind wander in different directions, in a way that lends itself to things like writing original jokes or coming up with a different angle on problems or ideas that can be solved with more 'out of the box' solutions. It does something to the associative memory in which it makes associations which you wouldn't normally assert (Which is where I think a lot of people who don't enjoy it end up paranoid - a healthy dose of critical thought and reasoning going into these experiences may be helpful, along with keeping the dose relatively low).

                                                                                                                                                    That said since it does have a thought-scattering thing going for it that if you don't bother to try and focus on getting those scattered thoughts on to something which records them, it's kind of a waste of time if we're talking about using it for purely utilitarian reasons.

                                                                                                                                                    • sealthedeal 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                      I think that the creativity when high is basically the stress relief that THC can give. So essentially you are a blank slate, no worries, and can put your attention onto an issue and ideas seem to just "come from no where". It all comes down to stress relief.
                                                                                                                                                      • jamal-kumar 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                        Yeah but on the flip side what is stress relief for some becomes a thought looping panic attack for others
                                                                                                                                                • bennysomething 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                  I always remember that quote as well, the bored part of it really stuck with me.

                                                                                                                                                  Unfortunately I smoked my first joint at 13, I'm pretty certain it damaged my short term memory. I think had it been legal I wouldn't have got hold of it until much older plus it would have lost some of its cool factor.

                                                                                                                                                  It was mostly hash in my day, I actually never liked weed , it was all super skunk loaded with thc that caused paranoia.

                                                                                                                                                  Alcohol, cocaine and mdma are rough drugs too but there's something about weed/hash that makes me think it's overall mental effects might be worse. It's odd that it's written off as harmless quite often. (Btw I think all drugs should be legal, but I also now think they are all horrible and have nothing to do with them , well apart from beer and wine!)

                                                                                                                                                  • dogman144 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                    Ya this is what I haven’t understood about weed advocacy and the discussion around it. I think that people who were in the scene in middle/high school, which unfortunately is very very common in my view but just not well known, know more than enough lives torpedoed by getting into it.

                                                                                                                                                    Sure, “surprise, doing drugs at 13 is bad,” but I don’t know a lot of teenage drinkers who stopped at drinking (vs further in) in the same bad spot as the teenage smokers I knew (who stopped at smoking).

                                                                                                                                                    The difference of smoking at 13 vs 30 is likely different, but idk if I really buy starting in adulthood and trending towards habitual is meaningfully immune from its bad impacts I’ve seen peers deal who stuck with it.

                                                                                                                                                  • INTPenis 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                    I'm doing what I love buzzed right now, building a cluster for my homelab, creating a hybrid cloud solution to host some services and saving on money by leveraging cheap compute at home.

                                                                                                                                                    But yes, Randy Marsh was absolutely right. I've had periods of my life where I've abused it and I regret every one of those days.

                                                                                                                                                    • hirvi74 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                      > I've had periods of my life where I've abused it and I regret every one of those days.

                                                                                                                                                      I think I am starting to wake up to this. I do find enjoyment in it, and there is such a sunk cost fallacy I keep factoring in too.

                                                                                                                                                      I mean do I take occasional breaks, but probably not enough. It had definitely helped me lower my inhibitions enough to introspectively identity some issues that were deeply hidden under the surface of my everyday life. However, it's killed my motivation and in some ways it's starting to negatively affect other areas of my life. Regardless of my dependence, I am thankful to not feel clinically addicted or anything.

                                                                                                                                                      I will say, it wasn't my first choice of treatment. I tried the mental/medical health professional route. I'm still on that train, and it's been 8 years. Nothing has really improved, so I am not sure what else to do and where else to go. I adopted cannabis around the age of 29 with very limited experience prior. The kind I use is not like the variety in this article either. I use 1:1 THC:CBD hemp because high thc products are illegal in my area. So maybe the damage isn't "as bad."

                                                                                                                                                      If all the medical/mental health treatments I tried work as well as the medical research and doctors claim then I probably wouldn't have ever began to use cannabis in the first place. But like I said, what else am I to do? It's exhausting and stressful trying to force yourself to be a way your body naturally fights against.

                                                                                                                                                      It's apparent that I cannot function well without some sort of chemical assistance. I guess the only difference is where I get it from (doctor vs. plant), the side-effects, and the societal views that accompany said chemicals.

                                                                                                                                                      • INTPenis 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                        The way I see it, throughout history I'm sure millions of people have just gone crazy by the everyday burdens of life. We might have more availability to forms of therapy but in the end it's up to you to balance your life. Soul controller.
                                                                                                                                                        • hirvi74 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                          That is something I have been slowly starting to realize. I lack ambition and without ambition I have nothing to work towards, which in turn makes finding a balance difficult.

                                                                                                                                                          I've been trying to do some soul searching to find out what I truly want, but I've chalked it up to, "I'll know it when I see it." And till then, I must keep searching.

                                                                                                                                                    • dfxm12 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                      South Park also put it well when they understood that total abstinence is not the only way to deal with the situation. Maybe all it takes is a little discipline.

                                                                                                                                                      After all, there's a passive danger in many things we do or neglect to do.

                                                                                                                                                      • rayiner 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                        > South Park also put it well when they understood that total abstinence is not the only way to deal with the situation. Maybe all it takes is a little discipline.

                                                                                                                                                        Exercising a "little discipline" doesn't really work for addictive substances. In my experience, high-functioning people with tons of impulse control often don't appreciate that others around them have more limited capacity for that. Despite drinking a lot in grad school, I just stopped after my daughter was born. Not out of any problem functioning, I was a social drinker and was just too busy with a job and baby. But it would be foolish of me to assume that everyone can just exercise "a little discipline" and go from 5+ drinks a night to nothing just like that.

                                                                                                                                                        • runarberg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                          The south park’s point in that episode wasn’t to deny the existence of substance abuse disorder. Rather the point was that not everyone that does dumb stuff one time while drinking has it.

                                                                                                                                                          In this episode Randy didn’t have Substance abuse disorder. He took the kids for a drive after drinking. He was caught and the court ordered him to undergo treatment despite there not being any proof that he was an alcoholic.

                                                                                                                                                          This mentality that anyone that does something dumb or illegal while drunk has a problem does no service for either those that actually have substance abuse disorder, nor for criminal justice. You should be responsible for your own actions, and if you are sick you need treatment. But ordering people to undergo treatment after a crime despite no evidence of a disorder is just plain bad. mkay.

                                                                                                                                                        • plmu 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                          If impulse control is an issue for you, I think weed is one of the lesser issues. Alcohol or other substances or habits are much more of a risk for those with little self control.
                                                                                                                                                        • seadan83 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                          It all depends on who you are & your physiology, right? I was super addicted to nicotine (I can say that nicotine is perhaps 500x more addictive than weed, and about 10,000x more addictive than coffee, and about 50x more addictive than alcohol - all of which I have been addicted to at varying times in my life).

                                                                                                                                                          I've known people that were fine smoking a cigarette every 3rd day. I'm not one and that would put me on a path of relapse in a hurry.

                                                                                                                                                          I'll agree that avoiding addiction takes discipline, but once addicted, it depends to what, and who you are whether you need to focus on recurring abstinence or if more moderation is the ticket.

                                                                                                                                                        • vsareto 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                          >If you smoke pot you may grow up to find out that you aren't good at anything

                                                                                                                                                          Hah, that's easily done without smoking pot

                                                                                                                                                          • kerabatsos 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                            I guess. But anecdotally, I learned JavaScript, read philosophical text, organize my goals, play games with my children, go for walks outside…while consuming a moderate amount of thc. My creativity goes up. Rarely do I just sit and do nothing but sometimes that’s fine too. Moderation works.
                                                                                                                                                            • ineptech 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                              For anyone interested, there's a support community around quitting pot at /r/leaves (that name being a humorous reference to /r/trees, a large subreddit for pot users).
                                                                                                                                                              • eej71 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                This late 80's PSA style ad covers that perspective as well. This style of ads were easy to mock even in the 80s - but I always thought this one had a point.


                                                                                                                                                                • tr1ll10nb1ll 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                  Moderation is key here, I believe. If you’re looking at successful people who get high all the time, it’s safe to assume they increased their marijuana (or any other substance) intake after having a skill they’re really good at. Most don’t and that’s why we see a correlation with drugs and being not good at much.
                                                                                                                                                                  • seadan83 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                    Do we see that correlation? Until recently, anyone over 40 was underground about marijuana usage. It turned out, tons of people use cannabis, many executives, plenty of people that we view as successful. One problem with black markets, it's very difficult to get good data, hence - do we really see a correlation? Or do we just perceive a correlation (ie: confirmation bias)
                                                                                                                                                                    • tr1ll10nb1ll 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not disagreeing and you can be wildly successful with or without it, I'm just pointing out heavy usage on a regular basis before you ever get to sustain that lifestyle can be detrimental to your success. But yeah, it could very well just be me perceiving a correlation here.
                                                                                                                                                                  • analog31 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                    I had a friend who was a heavy pot smoker, and was insistent that there were no health affects. I asked him: "What about motivation?"

                                                                                                                                                                    He said: "OK, motivation."

                                                                                                                                                                    • cultofmetatron 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                      weed is a godsend for me. I normally aways feel a bit guilty if I'm not doing something productive. To the point where its a significant source of anxiety and insomnia. when things start getting to hot in the brain, a few puffs and I'm content to relax, watch some anime and sleep early.

                                                                                                                                                                      completely agree with the op in general though. def not good of for kids who should be working on establishing themselves.

                                                                                                                                                                      • farnsworth 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                        This quote stuck in my brain for a long time and I resonate with it and how I used it at a certain period in my life. It doesn't have to be like this if you approach it differently but in a certain context and state of mind, it's like an anti-adderall. Makes the day go by in comfort and nothing at all gets done.
                                                                                                                                                                        • ipaddr 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                          Until you train yourself to get more things done when stoned which is step 2.
                                                                                                                                                                          • farnsworth 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                            Yes, it just takes the right mindset and some effort (for me)
                                                                                                                                                                        • babypuncher 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                          I think it highlights why we put age restrictions on things like this. A developing brain is far more likely to fall into this trap than and already functioning adult brain.
                                                                                                                                                                          • Terry_Roll 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                            Actually I'd say its got some sort of anticholinergic effect.

                                                                                                                                                                            The whitey that people experience, usually first time users or infrequent users, is a release of glutathione, and obviously its messing with the endocannabinoid system.

                                                                                                                                                                            Its also got a very potent memory wiping effect, which makes it useful for criminals doing stuff to you, like raping you in your sleep if you have been spiked with prescription sleeping pills and/or off the shelf anti histamines sold to aid sleep.

                                                                                                                                                                            Its a very nasty combination of drugs, when that sort of stuff has been done to you in your sleep, and criminals never tell you what they plan to do to you!

                                                                                                                                                                            Dont make it easy for them, the legal system wont help you!

                                                                                                                                                                            • __s 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                              • majani 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                Conversely you could argue that that's probably a good way to go out after you get an empty nest
                                                                                                                                                                                • throw7 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                  > it most likely isn't gonna fund terrorists


                                                                                                                                                                                  • dghlsakjg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't know if it is the same in Europe, but Marijuana in North America tends to be produced in the country it is consumed. In most places where it is legalized in the states and canada you can even find out exactly what farm it was that produced it.

                                                                                                                                                                                    More than I can say for the food I eat.

                                                                                                                                                                                • LazyMans 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                  Many years ago I was sitting at my computer smoking after work like I normally did, and I asked myself, "What would I be doing if I wasn't smoking right now" and I couldn't answer it. I tapered off pretty easily and began to fill my time with other hobbies.

                                                                                                                                                                                  I was never the type of smoker which was "active". I would smoke socially and began to hate that I could never remember people's names or conversations. It made me fairly quiet and anti-social compared to without.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Now I really can't enjoy marijuana, even when buying low THC high CBD bud and vaping it, it's still very easy for me to overshoot and get into a state I hate. Marijuana turns me into a complete idiot and creates a sort of cerebral haze I can't stand.

                                                                                                                                                                                  I really dislike the lack of education surrounding marijuana. People, especially young people, seem to disregard the impact of excessive consumption. You can argue with me all day it's safer than alcohol or tobacco, and I agree if we're talking equivalent amounts, but I'm not saying you should drink daily or multiple times a day for years.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Everybody is different, my experience isn't necessarily everyone else's. For those that do fall into the trap of spending too much money, time, and failing to understand how weed might be holding them back, better education, regulation, and support should net society a bunch of happy well informed people living their best lives.

                                                                                                                                                                                  • chaostheory 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                    > it's still very easy for me to overshoot and get into a state I hate. Marijuana turns me into a complete idiot and creates a sort of cerebral haze I can't stand

                                                                                                                                                                                    I can only enjoy THC as a sleep aid for the reasons you’ve highlighted above. For me, it feels like mj is underclocking my brain. I am aware of it and I hate being slow. It’s a terrible feeling. I enjoy alcohol much more even though mj is safer overall.

                                                                                                                                                                                    The real danger of marijuana is that for a small portion of the population it can induce schizophrenia, but it only affects a very small segment of the population since I believe you have to be in your early 20s or younger and be genetically prone to it

                                                                                                                                                                                    • geekbird 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                      When I was in college I tried weed. It was not a recreation for me, it just put me to sleep, a couple hits and I was out on the couch. So I never got into it.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Fast forward a few decades. I now have chronic insomnia due to things like on-call and anxiety. My brain will not shut down enough for sleep. I had tried Ambien, melatonin, blah, blah. Nothing really worked. I went to a party, they had green brownies. I was on the verge of a migraine, so I had a couple. Out on the couch in half an hour. I woke up without the migraine.

                                                                                                                                                                                      So now I use THC/CBD to deal with migraines and insomnia. I can get a good night's sleep if I take a nice, measured dose gummy just before bed. I wake up slightly before my alarm, alert and refreshed. This is a big change from before. If I feel a migraine coming on I put stuff on hold, take a big dose of CBD and some THC and sleep it off. I wake up without the post-migraine stupids that Imitrex causes.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Used responsibly, in moderation, it can have a life-changing benefit - just like other drugs. If it's abused... well, alcohol abuse will kill you too.

                                                                                                                                                                                      • eikenberry 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                        Interesting. For me the roles are reversed. Alcohol makes me feel dumb, like I can't think as fast or clearly. THC has a very different effect. I don't feel slow, I mostly feel calm and clear. Sort of in the ballpark of meditating. I've done some of my best writing on weed. I've written some great code high. I prefer low doses (10mg) of a nice hybrid edibles with a decent amount of CBD (1:1 or 2:1) for this.

                                                                                                                                                                                        And yeah, the schizophrenia risk would make me think twice about it if that ran in my family. Though I'm now at an age where that wouldn't matter (schizophrenia almost always manifest by your 30s which I cleared a while back).

                                                                                                                                                                                        • libraryatnight 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                          >For me, it feels like mj is underclocking my brain. I am aware of it and I hate being slow. It’s a terrible feeling.

                                                                                                                                                                                          That's funny. I like it because it underclocks my brain. It's not as needed these days now that I have meds for ADHD, but before I was diagnosed my brain felt like I was constantly thinking too fast. While I enjoy that I make connections quickly and that I retrain and recall information quickly, it's a depressing burden when it's out of control. So before the meds weed was the only thing that kept me feeling calm, focused and in control

                                                                                                                                                                                        • oceanplexian 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                          I am in the same boat… there is a serious lack of education. It’s like the pendulum has swung completely the other way from drug abstinence, and now there is tons of disinfo claiming weed is harmless and non-addictive when that’s not the true story.

                                                                                                                                                                                          I’m still in favor of legalization, but cannabis needs some of the regulations we apply to tobacco. Producers shouldn’t be able to make packaging that looks like a bag of skittles or a candy bar. There needs to be warnings on the packaging, informed consent when purchasing it, possibly even hotlines or pamphlets given out to help young people avoid addiction.

                                                                                                                                                                                          • ipaddr 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                            Because children will think smoking weed is like eating a candy bar?

                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't know of any place that allows selling to minors or even allowing them in the store. What good is changing wrappers when kids don't shop in those places?

                                                                                                                                                                                            Cannabis has stronger laws compared to tobacco already. Plenty of medical and church related pamphlets exist. What do you think is missing?

                                                                                                                                                                                            The truth is you grew up and turned into your parents.. it happens to many who have kids.

                                                                                                                                                                                            • vineyardmike 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                              > Because children will think smoking weed is like eating a candy bar?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes and no.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes. Kids sometimes find parents/adult things and think it’s candy and eat it. Parents should be careful blah blah blah. Parents make mistakes. Kids are crafty at rifling though cabinets. Making something look like candy increases the odds kids eat it by mistake.

                                                                                                                                                                                              But also by making things taste good (esp addictive or habit forming things) you’ll increase the ease at building the habit. Ask Juul how that’s going. That’s the whole idea behind menthol cigarettes and mango vapes. Make the habit easier. Even for adults.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Cannabis has stronger laws around distribution and dosing… tobacco has way stronger packaging and advertising laws. You can’t make nicotine candies, you can’t use shiny flashy colors, you can’t make fun ads etc. You can do that with cannabis.

                                                                                                                                                                                              > The truth is you grew up and turned into your parents

                                                                                                                                                                                              Sometimes you grow up and find out adults knew a few things about the world.

                                                                                                                                                                                              You can think cannabis and drugs should be legal without thinking it shouldn’t have basic regulation to protect people from themselves and from the product. We have plenty of other laws for other products to prevent bad advertisement or to include warning labels.

                                                                                                                                                                                              For what it’s worth, I personally think we should require things like edibles to be low dosage and packaged with warnings but I think we should still allow candies and fun packaging. But I’m a sucker for a cool package and maybe that’s the point…

                                                                                                                                                                                              • bowsamic 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                The problem is that the weed community actively silences any mention that there might be any danger involved. I’ve had multi hour exchanges where I’ve sent peer review studies showing it is dangerous and been constantly shut down as a federal agent or FUDder
                                                                                                                                                                                            • sajrar 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                              Totally agree. I hate modern weed. It is as if all alcohol producers were in a race to create the highest proof moonshine but I just like having a glass of wine.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Of course, everyone drinking moonshine is also going to lead to more alcoholics than people just having a glass of wine socially.

                                                                                                                                                                                              I use to be able to smoke once a month and not even think about it the next day. Any modern strain I wake up the next day thinking "I should smoke more weed!". Just crazy.

                                                                                                                                                                                              • R0b0t1 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                Indica or sativa? Most people with complaints as you describe are smoking indica, sativa is more appropriate for social situations, but can still make you get stuck in your head. Most people I know who use sativa find it helps their creativity.
                                                                                                                                                                                                • LazyMans 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                  If one more person tries to tell me it's strain... Both, any mixture, any strain. Edibles, vaping, smoking, all of it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Some of the more pleasant times are when I mix up ABV (already vaped weed) into edibles. Those I can get weak enough and with only the more stony compounds remaining where it can be pleasant, but it still turns me into a drooling idiot with absolutely horrific munchies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  • darth_aardvark 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                    > If one more person tries to tell me it's strain

                                                                                                                                                                                                    It's like telling an alcoholic to try switching from vodka to tequila, because vodka makes you angry and depressed but tequila makes you a fun drunk. THC is THC, and any difference is psychosomatic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    • ipaddr 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Drinking beer vs vodka is a big jump. Fruity drinks with vodka can leave you trashed because of the high.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you think all weed produces the same effects then you first need to understand it's not all about thc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      First lesson Terpes:

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Next lessons: thc vs thca vs cbd

                                                                                                                                                                                                      • R0b0t1 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                        THC is THC, but there are other compounds in the plant that appear important in the texture of the experience. Many people report the same, and following the delta-8 legalization wave they are apparently fractionally distilling the plant extract and separating out many of the active components.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • darth_aardvark 12 days ago

                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The research shows that genetically it is impossible to prove whether a cannabis plant is an Indica or Sativa. There is no difference in the genes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The overall chemical profile, like the genetics, shows no apparent difference between the labels.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          • civilitty 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                            The GP is talking about the "overall chemical profile" that depend on the strain and growing conditions. There are over a hundred cannabinoids identified in cannabis that have a variety of effects in humans (not to mention the terpenes/terpenoids), including several that are produced when THC oxidizes so the "overall chemical profile" depends on the age of the plant matter in question as well as how it was processed and stored.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Whether the Indica/Sativa marketing labels correlate with that chemical profile or not is besides the point. We know that different batches of the same strain can have different concentrations and ratios of all the of the relevant compounds because most legalized states require testing every batch. I don't know of any high quality research that studies how the subjective experience correlates with different doses and ratios but given that at least one of the most common compounds in cannabis is FDA approved to treat epilepsy (Epidiolex) and all the anecdotal evidence, it's really not a stretch to see how different strains produce different highs in different people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            • Werewolf255 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                              I mean, this is like saying that sweet onions aren't sweet. Yes, it's a regular onion, but growing conditions, fertilizers, and in-situ conditions mean that it is, in fact, a sweeter onion. Genetics would show that it's not different, but it has an obvious difference which is measurable through non-genetic means.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • TaylorAlexander 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Counter point: I am 37 years old. I quit marijuana three or four months ago, but before that I was vaping marijuana nearly every day for four years. During that time I’ve achieved more success in my career than any other time. I think it was good for me to quit. I feel more alert and more productive now. More level and less tired. Maybe I would have been more successful without it, so perhaps you are right. But then, life shouldn’t be just about success. And then, I still got where I am today, with the best career I’ve ever had. So it doesn’t feel like it held me back at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Crucially, I used relatively small amounts of pure sativa. I wasn’t stuck on the couch while I used it. Still, this to me suggests self control is more important than abstinence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Shindi 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I also used to smoke frequently and fully stopped. I think my grandparent makes an interesting point about how habit forming it is because it's so safe which is a good and bad. Wish I had known how habit forming it is before I started.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      And to your point, yes life is not just about success, it's about so much more like friends and family.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's why I hate weed. It turned my friends who were creative, thoughtful and caring, into people who just wanted to smoke and do nothing when they had time off.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      • TaylorAlexander 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                        It’s funny because I’m extremely creative whether I’m smoking or not. Late last year I designed a four axis 3D printed robot arm full of custom 3D printed planetary gearboxes and brushless motors. I was stoned the whole time I was designing it. Early this year I met a bunch of skateboarders and we had a great time smoking a bit and skating in empty parking lots. I had successful creativity and good friendships while vaping. But again I used pure sativa that didn’t make me want to sit on the couch. And it was hard to find! Most weed sold in California stores is a hybrid with some of that couch lock feeling. I think some stoners just don’t realize they can get something that doesn’t knock them on their ass.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I’m not saying people should smoke or vape. But I do want to say that with care and self control it can be a habit that doesn’t cause serious problems. Though ultimately I feel much better having quit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      • wooque 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                        I would guess there are people who do cocaine every day without trouble. That doesn't mean everyone should do drugs. Most people can't handle it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                        • mtnGoat 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                          You dont have to guess, i can assure you these people exist. I know a few.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          In fact some of the biggest names in tech and other industries are definately using drugs, its very possible to be a high achiever and be on drugs. in fact, it seems to be, that we really don't even call it addiction until it ruins your live, otherwise its just called "recreational". strange to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          • aparticulate 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                            cocaine is not weed though

                                                                                                                                                                                                            most people cannot do cocaine every day without trouble. Coffee? every day is fine

                                                                                                                                                                                                            different drugs have different danger

                                                                                                                                                                                                            • com2kid 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Coffee? every day is fine

                                                                                                                                                                                                              /r/nootropics, common thread is as follows:

                                                                                                                                                                                                              OP: "Help, I have bad anxiety every day, what should I take for it?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                              re: "Do you drink coffee?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                              OP: "Yes, about 4 cups a day."

                                                                                                                                                                                                              re: "Stop drinking coffee and come back in a week and tell us how you are doing."

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1 week later.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              OP: "My anxiety is gone!!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Caffeine has negative side effects. For some people those side effects are really bad.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Also caffeine messes up sleep cycles. After seeing sleep study results, I won't touch the stuff after 10am or so, if even that late.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Alcohol is even worse in this regard, it will just ruin your sleep cycles at night.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Edit: Let me emphasis this for anyone reading:

                                                                                                                                                                                                              YOU WILL NOT GET DEEP SLEEP IF YOU HAVE A NIGHTCAP.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes, you will get drowsy, drink enough and you will pass out. The restorative quality of the sleep you get that night will NOT be good. I've seen first hand the sleep study results from this. The effect is so obvious that even the questionable sleep quality results that wrist based wearables give you can easily and consistently show this effect.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              • dfxm12 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Does caffeine have negative side effects, or does caffeine, taken in excess, including in late hours of the day, have negative side effects?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's an important distinction to make in this discussion, which largely boils down to "off label use", whether we're talking about drinking simply too much coffee or people with developing brains getting too much thc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                • com2kid 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Does caffeine have negative side effects,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Caffeine has negative side effects. It is an addictive psychoactive drug. Its effects are mild, but, to repeat, it is an addictive psychoactive drug.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Even moderate use can cause sever anxiety in some people. L-theanine is a great counter to this. Green tea naturally has L-theanine in it and that is likely why people who drink green tea do not report anxiety (at least in significant numbers) while coffee drinkers do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  FWIW Matcha has even more L-theanine that green tea.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • kayodelycaon 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Note: L-theanine binds to glutamate receptors and that can mess with psychotropic medications like mood stabilizers and anti-psychotics.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    From personal experience, it caused my medications to stop working.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • com2kid 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Note: L-theanine binds to glutamate receptors and that can mess with psychotropic medications like mood stabilizers and anti-psychotics.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Now that I did not know. Given that l-theanine is a natural constituent of green tea (though I don't know offhand in what amount) I figure there would be more mention of this! A casual search doesn't reveal much, and even ( doesn't have anything listed. Ugh.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Then again almost no one mentions that 5-HTP can cause horrible things to happen to your heart. :/

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • bowsamic 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Most drugs and drug reactions are still very unexplored
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • markdown 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > It is an addictive psychoactive drug

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I just quit cold turkey three days ago and suffered through two days of horrible headaches. I don't want to ever get hooked again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • mtnGoat 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      this is rhetorical right?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • bun_at_work 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just piggy-backing on this comment; a great book about sleep is Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker. The author does seem to fall into the "everything is a nail when all you have is a hammer" trap, but they do know a lot about sleep and the points in the above comment are backed up in the book with solid studies and references.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • com2kid 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        All my knowledge comes from reviewing sleep study data we did to train the Microsoft Band on sleep recognition. I'm not an expert by any means, just someone who got slapped in the face with a bunch of data that loudly screamed "THIS IS UNHEALTHY STOP DOING IT."
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • emmo 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          As a bit of a caution on the book, it's probably worth a look at this article:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • koverstreet 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Even these aren't universal though. For me, with ADD, my anxiety goes up when I'm not on stimulants, and the thing that destroys my sleep is intensive, creative coding. Alcohol doesn't do much to my sleep.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think the most universal things everyone should be doing are: get more exercise, and get more sleep.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • kens 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Coffee? every day is fine

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I wonder how people will look back on coffee hundreds of years from now. "Almost everyone used to constantly drink an addictive stimulant. Shops on every block sold it. People stated that they couldn't function (or even talk) in the morning until they had consumed the stimulant. At work, people needed to take constant stimulant breaks. If someone went a day without it, they often suffered debilitating headaches." It sounds like dystopian science fiction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (To be clear, I'm not opposed to coffee. It's just one of those things that seems strange if you think about it from a distant perspective.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • zinclozenge 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It only sounds like a dystopian science fiction if you describe it as such.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • Taywee 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Language is really interesting in that way. You can positively or negatively frame literally anything without actually being untruthful.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • throw34 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              On the other hand, it's not like coffee houses are a recent invention.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Check on the section on WW2, "An average of 20 pounds of coffee were consumed a year per adult. ... This amount was cut in half to 10 pounds a year, as one pound of coffee was allotted to each person over 15 years old every five weeks."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • vkou 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It's even stranger when you look at how I chug decaff.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I hate what caffeine does to me, but I like the taste of black coffee.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • TaylorAlexander 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Well I certainly wouldn’t take the position that everyone should do drugs! I guess I’m just pushing back against the idea that marijuana use automatically means your life will be worse. I think this depends on your personality, use habits, and level of self control.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • spywaregorilla 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Most people can handle it. But that still doesn't mean everyone should do drugs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • coding123 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You're saying that if everyone in the world started to take cocaine daily, a high percentage of people, say 80-90% can handle it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • spywaregorilla 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What does handling it mean if you're taking cocaine daily? Taking drugs daily is already likely beyond the point of dependence. Regardless of will power, you will almost certainly develop some level of chemical addiction and tolerance trying to use cocaine, recreational-y, daily. I would say the question is invalid.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I meant most people can do cocaine once, or at an infrequent irregular frequency without getting addicted to it and becoming dependent.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    FWIW most means > 50%

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • the_gipsy 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is debatable. If there is a critical mass of people doing cocaine regularly, then more people will get addicted with that availability.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • samatman 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Higher than that I would guess. Bolivians seem to handle it at a rate of "all of them".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Of course they're using quids, if they were injectors of pure cocaine the situation would be less rosy. But you didn't specify the route and concentration.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This isn't a gotcha, it's a habit of daily use by millions, all of whom are basically fine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • diffeomorphism 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Wrong way around. If everyone in the world consumes something and side effects are very rare and usually mild, then you have to argue what the problem is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        For cocaine and most "hard drugs" probably neither is true. For coffee it seems both are true. For alcohol 1 is true and 2 is tricky.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • jazzyjackson 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          the poison is in the dose
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • DiggyJohnson 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Counter point taken.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Follow-on question: have you had similar success in your relationships and personal life in the last 4 years?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was a great student stoned, and a decent heads-down coworker. I became a detached boyfriend and family member and even more detached friend. I made my world smaller, so I could "focus" on work. My time on creative/non-passive hobbies fell to zero. I didn't lose friends but I didn't keep up with them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I genuinely hope your experience has not been so asymmetrical.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • TaylorAlexander 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I wouldn’t describe my relationship style as detached at all. I was attentive and used some of my time in therapy to work on issues that came up with my partner and try to resolve them. It didn’t work out but I think that’s due to a bad fit. And she smoked a lot of weed (more than I did) so we were aligned there.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My creative passions exploded. Personal design projects (3D printing, circuit board design, robotics, programming) all were off the charts high, as I reduced the number of hours I worked at my regular job to under 30 hours a week. It was the most productive hobby time of my life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I think it makes a huge difference that I smoked relatively small amounts of pure sativa, and nothing else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Biggest issue I think was how it affected my sleep. I would stay up late getting stoned and designing robots, going to sleep around 4 or 5am. I’d wake up at 12 or 1. Made it hard to visit my Dad for lunch since he lives a ways away. Now without weed I go to bed at midnight and wake up at 8. I like that! Much easier to make plans with my Dad and my new partner (who is GREAT).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • lacker 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I quit marijuana three or four months ago, but before that I was vaping marijuana nearly every day for four years. During that time I’ve achieved more success in my career than any other time. I think it was good for me to quit. I feel more alert and more productive now. More level and less tired.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Maybe the next four years are going to be the most successful four years of your career. Good luck!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • TaylorAlexander 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oh they probably will be! My open source career is blowing up. Still while it wasn’t said outright, what I read in to my parent comment was that using marijuana will make you a failure or unsuccessful. Obviously I am reading a lot of what my dad used to say in to that comment, which never made such a claim. But I wanted to provide my perspective nonetheless. Also, thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • solitus 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Was a stoner from age 15 to 25 (first joint at 12-13), I started smoking less and less at 25 and have recently just totally stopped in my early 30s (I might take a puff here and there once in while socially, but even then). Most of my friends were also stoners, some still are. I cannot stress this enough, if you get high EVERY day or EVERY other day from 15 to 25 it really does something to your motivation in life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I still struggle with motivational problems (ADHDish issues), but I think I've been lucky. I have friends that will probably never achieve anything meaningful in life and that is despite having had access to the best education available (private schools), parents that were MORE than okay, welp being privileged you know... Now some of them cannot stand normalcy (i.e.: working).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        There is a world of difference between starting weed when you're 25 and smoking a little bit VS getting HIGH almost everyday from 13-15 onwards.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        When we were young we convinced ourselves that weed was not dangerous at all...fools.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm about to be a dad, I'll make sure my kids know what's up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • PragmaticPulp 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The real danger with cannabis is not that it'll make you sick or have some nasty side effect like this article describes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That may be true for the majority of users, but the increase in people having significant negative reactions to high-dose THC is a real phenomenon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This new era of extremely potent THC concentrates and other high-dose products has opened the door to some people using far more THC than previous generations could easily consume. Many of these high-dose users are discovering that the old narrative that weed isn’t “physically addictive” isn’t actually true and prolonged high-dose usage can produce significant physical and mental withdrawal effects. It won’t kill you like extreme alcohol withdrawal can, but the deep impulse to redose and inability to quit easily catches a lot of these high-dose users unprepared after they’ve been told that weed is harmless for so long.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Psychosis among high-dose users is also on the rise, though harder to pinpoint because the connection is very hard to make and quantify in studies. Again, this isn’t something people were taught to watch out for so you see some of these users believing that marijuana is a treatment for their psychosis rather than a cause and they spiral further and further until quitting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The old street knowledge about marijuana’s biggest downside being laziness doesn’t really apply to people engaging in the more extreme doses and uses heavily processed and concentrated products.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • slg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Why is this topic always brought up regarding weed, but nothing else? Should we make video games illegal because they can cause some people to live a lethargic and less productive life?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • jerf 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It is brought up with other things. Perhaps you are extra sensitive about the weed topic for your own personal reasons. "Video games" is a particularly bad counter example, there's a lot of chatter around video game addictiveness and what it can do to vulnerable minds. There's always been some low-key discussion of it but the increasing prevalence of "loot boxes" and their corresponding mechanics have not just increased the volume of the hand-wringing but actually risen up to the level of being banned in certain countries. It's early days on that and I expect to see more regulation of video games over time. As a parent, I can and do directly control my children's access to video games. (My children for various reasons I'm not sharing on the internet are extra sensitive to the issues.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              For example: "The Immoral Design of Diablo Immortal" -

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • jamal-kumar 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That's a gambling addiction you're mentioning here, something I feel is a LOT more insidious than smoking a joint on occasion
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • slg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You are debating a different aspect of video games. The complaint against loot boxes is not that they prevent video game players from reaching their true productive potential. They don't do that. The problem with loot boxes is that they are exploitative.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • wincy 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Before loot boxes existed you had Diablo 2, which instead of your money you were trading your time to get the best items. I wasted thousands of hours of my prime years trying to gamble my way to the “perfect build”. World of Warcraft was the same way, only writ large and perfected with raids. I’ve spent literal years of my life playing Blizzard games and hate myself for wasting so much time.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • jerf 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm not "debating" anything. I'm pointing out that people have been complaining about video games for a while, and that the loot boxes in particular have amped that debate up. But they did not create it. Video games have been accused of rotting brains (the favored rhetorical formulation of this accusation for whatever reason) for my entire life. I'm pointing to the existing debates as evidence of this.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • slg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Weed is bad" is not what I am arguing against and therefore a generic "video games are bad" complaint is not equivalent. The question is whether we should care that weed makes you a less productive member of society. Loot boxes have no impact on a gamers level of production so it is an irrelevant argument.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also isn't the "video games rotting people's brain" complaint always laughed at in circles like HN? Is that really the parallel you want to make? Plus people generally only say that in relation to kids. I'm not advocating for kids (or anyone) to use pot. I am saying the personal productivity angle is a weak line of argument and is usually masking some other objection to pot since the same argument is not used in other discussions in which it is equally applicable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • collegeburner 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Parents have been complaining for literally decades that videogames make kids lazy or that "tv rots your brain". And I have seen videogame overuse fuck up people's academics and careers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Weed bros get real touchy when anybody suggests something bad about it. Inb4 "alcohol is worse". I'm still for legalization but people need to stop getting so defensive.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • aparticulate 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Touchiness is a hangover from the unjust war on drugs. Also, why alcohol is worse is so frequently cited. It will probably go away as stigma rapidly fades
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • UncleMeat 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        All people want is for weed to be legal. These arguments about wasted lives are used to justify keeping it illegal.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • anonym29 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm 100% pro-legalisation, not because I believe cannabis is harmless (I got psychologically hooked the exact way lacker describes), but because:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. Putting people in prison for using it causes more harm than the actual usage of it does.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. The threat of state force being used to strip people of their freedoms is not an effective deterrent. The war on drugs is an objective failure.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3. The war on drugs was nonsensical to begin with. You are legally free to drink bleach. You can legally drink yourself to death on alcohol. You can legally consume enough caffeine to give yourself a heart attack and die on the spot. You can legally smoke 100 packs of highly addictive and harmful cigarettes a day. But you can't legally consume cannabis, which remains a schedule 1 drug?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Legalisation is of utmost importance not because cannabis is good and we ought to encourage consumption, but because the alternative (criminalisation) is irrational, morally reprehensible, and a costly waste of taxpayer resources.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There is no good that comes from criminalisation, only more harm, more waste, and more people being stripped of basic human rights for no justifiable reason.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • massysett 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There are gradations between putting people in prison and full legalization. Speeding in a school zone is illegal but it generally won’t land me in prison. I don’t favor imprisoning drug users but that doesn’t mean we need a free-for-all with weed stores.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • anonym29 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Criminalising the sale just turns what could otherwise be taxed and regulated product (tested for mycotoxins, pesticides, solvents, heavy metals, etc; ++tax revenue) into an unregulated (and thus less safe) and untaxed product sold exclusively in illicit markets.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Again, it's not about wanting to encourage the sale of it, it's that the alternative (criminalisation) causes more harm than good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To your point, I'm all for having a surgeon general's warning on cannabis products, restricting the sale to age 25+ (when the prefrontal cortex is much closer to finishing development), and other measures that may reduce harm, rather than increasing it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • Mountain_Skies 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Users of weed do more to keep it illegal by their off-putting rhetoric than any Refer Madness propaganda does. I've been in favor of legalization for decades but really dislike discussing it with users because of their often lack of self-awareness and tendency to be just as dishonest as those against it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • UncleMeat 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "Pot smokers are aggravating" is, frankly, a very stupid reason for anybody to support criminalization.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • fzeroracer 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What? Like, films such as Reefer Madness were created at the height of the anti-marijuana propaganda drive fueled by strongly racist rhetoric to stamp out minorities. That drive and rhetoric dictated US policy for over 50 years, resulted in increasing penalties against marijuana users and leads up to the current day where it's still classified as Schedule I drug.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Your framing of the situation is just remarkably wrong considering the entire legal history of marijuana in the US.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • lostmsu 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Your comment kinda demonstrates his point though. He made a comparison, and you pointed out that what he compared weed consumption to is crazy. And you said absolutely nothing about weed consumption itself which is required to understand the validity of the comparison. And not providing that part is exactly demonstrating the lack of self-awareness.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • fzeroracer 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  His comparison was between your average smoker arguing for legality vs an entire institution that was setup to criminalize and demonize them for decades, then calling them equally a problem. What exactly here would change the validity of the comparison?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • lostmsu 10 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    At least claiming that your average smoker arguing for legality would provide more substantiated arguments, than the institution in question.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • com2kid 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > And I have seen videogame overuse fuck up people's academics and careers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Circa 2005, a non-trivial percent of students sat in the back of lecture halls playing WoW during classes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Games have gotten terrifyingly more addictive since then, though you don't hear so much about games ruining lives anymore in the news. Maybe it just isn't newsworthy anymore?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • hosh 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I think while productivity shouldn't be the exclusive way we measure someone's life (and its implicit frame that someone's worth is measured by that person's material contribution to society), those dialogues hide a more interesting question -- how purposeful someone's life is, and whether regular, recreational use of marijuana supports or discourages living purposefully and meaningfully.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My experiences of marijuna is that it can loosen the societal conditioning on "productivity", and reveal the lack of purpose and meaning in one's life. It's liberating to realize the a lot of the conditioning don't matter as much as it seems.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            It's at this point, that it's tempting to continue and just have fun. Here though, is the space in which one can discover one's purpose from within, with societal and external expectations muted. It's paradoxically that here, connecting with that purpose, brings life and joy outside of the mental states that marijuana can bring. When one makes conscious contact with that inner, unconditioned purpose, marijuna is something that is fun that one can occasionally enjoy, but not as a substitute for purposefully living.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • Mountain_Skies 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It gets brought up in posts about weed because the posts, like this one, are about weed. Similar things are stated about other things in posts about those other things. Do you believe discussion of the relative pros and cons of weed use should be forbidden?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • bko 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                No one said it should be illegal. It's just dangerous.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • jcelerier 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Should we make video games illegal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Didn't China do almost exactly that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • s1mon 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Not exactly. They restricted online gaming. "China Limits Online Videogames to Three Hours a Week for Young People - New regulation will ban minors from playing videogames entirely between Monday and Thursday"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • usrn 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Online video games are kind of their own thing. I wish normal/local multiplayer games didn't get lumped in.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • marcosdumay 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't see much support for criminalization of drugs around here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But yeah, we should educate people so they notice if this happen due to view games, or Facebook too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • actfrench 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The conversation about whether or not we should make something illegal is a whole other category. We know that alcohol is bad for the brain and has a myriad of health effects and destroys lives, but was prohibition the best solution to end addiction - the jury is definitely out on that one! And don't get me started on the opioid crisis. However, I do think information is power. People often see marijuana is the harmless, kind drug that gets over-criticized. It's important to realize that the impact of the drug is not harmless and that it's also changing as it's become legalized and people are able to make it more potent with higher levels of THC, the impact on human health - and also the environment. It's also not being sustainably farmed the way it was before.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • dfxm12 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      In their never ending goal to control kids' lives, a certain segment of parents know they've lost the war against D&D, comic books, rock n roll, TV, rap music, video games, etc. This is just the topic du jour.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • habitue 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Video games are a similar threat to living a fulfilling life, absolutely.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Definitely not the exact same kind of threat, since video games don't make you dumber like pot, but there is a real risk that a person substitutes accomplishing things in real life in favor of accomplishing things in a video game.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Your comment is kind of whataboutism. You're not really refuting what he's saying, just bringing up a separate topic

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • slg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I wasn't trying to refute the idea. The idea is true. The question is whether we should worry about it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Using weed is a recreation activity. Most recreation activities will have a negative impact on your life if they are not done in moderation. I don't think that is necessarily a problem and the fact that this generally isn't discussed in other contexts might indicate that people are subconsciously using this an excuse when their true objections to weed originate somewhere else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • retrac 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I can't speak for other people, but for me, it's not recreational. Not anymore. I need cannabis to simply feel normal. I feel high only when I'm sober, because sobriety is the atypical state. I can't sleep without it. I can't leave the house in the morning without it. After about 24 hours abstinence, I get debilitating headaches and start to vomit, presumably from the withdrawal. It's not fun. There's not much fun left in it at all, really. It's just an addiction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Weed may be unique in allowing such a constant level of intoxication with relatively mild side-effects. I think that's how it gets people. Such addiction is not that uncommon and I've watched legalization in Canada with a mix of appreciation (I still do believe it should be legally available) and apprehension (I think we're about to see a small but significant % of an entire generation end up in the same place I've been for the last ~10 years.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • slg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't know what your usage is like, but that is an outlier response that most likely originates from non-moderate use. Video game addiction is also something that causes severe negative impacts. The existence of these outlier responses does not mean either video games or weed are dangerous in moderation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • aaaaaaaaata 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > After about 24 hours abstinence, I get debilitating headaches and start to vomit, presumably from the withdrawal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • coding123 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  it's just the body missing something it thinks it needs, I get the same thing with coffee
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • hickimsedenolan 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't think video games fuck up your lungs and kill you in the long term, at least in capita.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • teakettle42 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Video games don’t make you lethargic, less productive, and significantly less intelligent for days after playing them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • matwood 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I disagree. I was fully addicted to Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC) back in the day. A perfect set of circumstances led to me have bit of time to start playing, and it quickly turned into 8+ hours/day. Anytime I wasn't playing, I was thinking or reading about playing. It ruined some important relationships, and definitely stunted my career (I stayed at an easy job far too long), and impacted me physically (stopped working out, ate like crap, etc...).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • jayd16 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  For days? Neither does weed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • teakettle42 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, it does.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Weed has non-acute negative effects on cognition for 7 hours to 3 weeks after use, dropping off most significantly after 72 hours of abstinence.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • ubercore 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You're really making that study do a lot of work it wasn't intended to. Their main conclusion is that the effect size on cognitive function was very small, and basically disappears after 72 hours.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • coding123 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In a round-about-way they do - video games are so fun you can end up playing them for days until you get bored.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • hericium 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What the hell did you smoke?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • drost 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I'm struggling with this right now. Using during the day is still an uncommon occurrence, but it's happening more and more.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The real issue I'm having with it is that I'm using pretty much every night. I come from the gym, take a shower, and grab the vape pen and sit on the couch. It just makes me so lazy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I stopped cooking and just eat pizza and ice cream nearly every night. Thankfully my weight hasn't taken a hit. But it creates this cycle of not cooking, so I don't buy groceries, so I can't cook, so I just order in.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • lacker 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yeah exactly. Like a lazy night isn't the worst thing in the world... it isn't even all that bad. It's not like you're breaking into cars for meth money or drunkenly assaulting people. But still, do you really want every night of your life to be vape pen, Netflix, order pizza?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't really know the best way to kick the habit or to reduce it. It seems like different things work for different people. Maybe it would help to pick one week to go no-cannabis and see if you can do it. Good luck with whatever strategy you decide to go with....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • iamdbtoo 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What's your expience with cannabis that makes you think every weed smoker only watches tv and eats pizza?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • deberon 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          They were responding to a weed smoker who claimed to do exactly that.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Shindi 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Just wanted to plug r/leaves . It's a great community that helps people figure out their reasons and quit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sometimes that means quitting for one week, feeling good and going back. But it has helped me quit for good and so much happier in life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • drost 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Just subscribed. Thank you
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • nicoburns 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I would recommend abstaining entirely for 2-4 weeks. See how you feel. See how easy it is to do. That you should give the perspective you need to evaluate whether it’s something you want in your life or not.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • pnemonic 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I can relate to this. My solution was smoke if and ONLY if I have already made dinner. Friday and Saturday night are the sole exceptions.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • darth_aardvark 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Take a break before it becomes worse. Get a kSafe and lock all your stuff up for a week or two to shake your brain out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I spent my whole 20s severely addicted to it without even realizing, and when I had to stop I felt like I was going crazy. Couldn't sleep, couldn't think, couldn't eat. It's really better to nip it in the bud.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • pas 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                it seems the problem is not weed or pizza or lack of cooking, but an overall lack of higher level goals. in this regard there's no real difference between gym + cooking and pizza + vaping. of course if you do have those goals and you are making progress, then sticking to cooking seems order for order's sake.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • dfxm12 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Even if marijuana is 100% responsible for your situation, there's no need to create a moral panic and project it onto others, like the parent poster & NYT article is doing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • dpbriggs 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    What is the purpose of this comment? OP is describing an issue they're having with the drug. I imagine it's not an uncommon story.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That italic "if" reeks of a certain sort of sensitivity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • myvoiceismypass 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I mean, you are going to the gym, and you feel lazy? That’s a healthier practice than most people I know. Consider it a reward? :)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • drost 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      By gym, I mean Jiu Jitsu. But that's really just physical entertainment that consumes 1-3 hours an evening. If I'm back home by 7, what do I do with the time between then and bedtime? I don't know if not smoke weed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • propogandist 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      sativa strains? force yourself to not use it for a few days. Also, if you do sit lazily on the couch watch some cooking shows (or something similar) so you can inspired for something to cook (or do) later when you’re not feeling lazy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • adampk 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        honestly sounds like you're having a great time lol
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • drost 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It's not a bad time. But I'm doing nothing. I spend each night channel surfing between YouTube, AppleTV, Hulu, and Netflix. It would be so boring if I were doing it sober.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • bbradley406 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I would recommend that you carve out an hour once a week to try cooking some new recipe and try to get it into your routine. Preferably something healthy, but it doesn't really matter. Do the shopping on a different day than the cooking at first. Start simple, you're not trying to impress Gordon Ramsay here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As someone who was in that exact situation previously in life - discovering new cooking techniques and finding small local grocers and ethnic food stores around me was eye opening. Local farms (or farmers markets if you're in a city) will have fresh, high quality nutritious products that you can work into ordinarily boring meals. Hell, even a BLT with locally butchered bacon, fresh lettuce and heirloom tomatoes is miles above anything you could get delivered or find at a chain store.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            After that look into meal prep (doing bulk prep for multiple meals which saves loads of time), more ambitious recipes that require planning, and upgrading your kitchen tools and skills. Weed isn't that bad in the big picture, but going through life eating sub-par delivery food is no way to live.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • hirvi74 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have a similar lifestyle.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am starting to realize it's not laziness that's holding me back. It's full-blown burnout, stress, and anxiety. I have realized that I am actively avoiding doing anything to make my life better. Upon further inspection, I was doing this before I touched cannabis (about 1.5 years ago). If anything, cannabis just dulls my feelings down enough that I can keep my head above water while going to my dead-end and toxic job that I've been at for almost 6 years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I know what I need to do and I cannot bring myself to do it. I am still trying to figure out why. Again, this existed prior to my cannabis usage too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • maxbond 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          On and off daily marijuana user.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I don't feel "dopey and less intelligent" when I smoke weed at all times of the day. It actually has very little impact on me. But it does help me deal with my chronic anxiety issues.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I take breaks regularly. Sometimes I get into a place where I can't operate in my day to day life because of intrusive thoughts. When I smoke I'm able to break out of cycles of repetitive thought and make real progress in my life. I achieve so much more and get so much more out of life. I'm able to engage with the people in my life better and improve my relationships.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You speak with false authority on a matter you cannot possibly understand, because you do not share the life experience of myself or people like me. It's irresponsible and you should desist. If you have relevant experiences, share them and explain that this is your conclusion. If you don't have relevant experiences, don't include yourself in the conversation. Don't speak in generalizations about other people's lives.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • mountainriver 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Agree, also a nightly user and I feel way better doing it. I feel more intelligent and better rested.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Also agree that the op shouldn’t speak in generalizations around this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • cupofpython 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Weed is a tool. it makes you high. that's about it as far as generalizations go.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            if weed makes someone feel fulfilled, then they can farm a lot more feelings of fulfillment by using it than the old fashioned way of actually accomplishing things. I think trying to shame people away from it is silly. People who use it will very quickly realize it isnt bad, and then they dismiss everything they heard about it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There is a monkey paw warning in that it wears off. It wears off in short and long terms; it is less effective the more you use it over time. So be aware that the spectrum for its effects is along the lines of "kind of cool for a little bit" to "everything you love slowly being ripped from your hands". the latter extreme probably being pretty rare and more applicable to heroin.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Otherwise you could make the same 'danger' argument about video games, porn, social media, reading books, painting, co-dependent relationships, etc. Anything that people use to dump their attention / time into rather than deal with anything uncomfortable in their life. The vessels people use are a matter of preference, and tangential to the underlying problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There is always an issue with trying to use 1 tool to fix every problem. obsession. Weed usage requires nuance and an understanding of what it is you are trying to accomplish with it. same as any other drug, same as any other tool.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Honestly, if someone wants to do nothing with their life than smoke weed.. who cares? I certainly dont. They might be one of the last people I offer any sort of charity to, but that's about me not them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • dividefuel 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Cannabis is the only drug where I struggle to find a healthy balance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Other ubiquitous drugs like caffeine or alcohol are easier for me to balance because their drawbacks (dependence, hangovers, weight gain) are more obvious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But cannabis doesn't have those to nearly the same extent, so it's easy to rationalize frequent use: on an average night without anything planned, it always sounds enjoyable without any downsides. But then frequent use eventually adds up and starts to cause small issues, like being a little lazier and having a slightly worse memory.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • 999900000999 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                As someone who used to be morbidly obese, I can make a better argument for banning Mc Donald's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >And you just won't get as much out of your life as you could get, won't achieve as much relationship success, professional success, or personal fulfillment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This applies to being 100 pounds overweight too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hell, it can be argued if you cut out beer and switch to cannabis your health will improve.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • jdoliner 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't see gp arguing for banning cannabis
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Agamus 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Not sure if this is related, but from what I understand, cannabis is prescribed medically to treat both anorexia and bulimia.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • rgbrgb 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree being stoned all the time can have bad effects. Similar to video games, TV, instagram, or going out, if you do it too much then you might look up after a while and realize that you haven't developed as many deep skills or relationships as your peers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    However, I've gotten stoned almost every night for the past ~15 years and I think it's been pretty positive. I actually get a low-level pleasant and productive anxiety to create shit. Like don't get me wrong I can get stoned and play a game or watch TV, but usually it just makes me want to go harder on something I'm working on and makes the work more fun. For certain types of work (writing product stuff, making music, css polish) I find it correlates with small creative bursts or insights. My current rule of thumb... only vape [0] in situations where I don't have to deal with strangers or kids (only at night these days). Like food, alcohol, coffee, being alone, or being social, moderation is key.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    My point is just that it depends on the person and setting. It's not necessarily good or bad, more like a power tool for your mind. No panacea.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • murat124 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The thing with cannabis (with THC) is that it makes doing nothing OK so you may realize after some time of daily use that you have accepted doing nothing as a legit activity, contrarily when not high you'd either do something to utilize that time or may feel bad that you have nothing to do (bored). Cannabis has not much of physical addiction properties which is great yet one day you may find 10 years have got behind you and you have done not much. Perhaps no one told you to stop consuming it daily or you have just drifted upon losing the handles on your life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you want to be a daily user, or already are, do try to still feel the need to do something when there's nothing to do and consume it responsibly. You probably will be fine health-wise but remember that doing-nothing-is-ok is not ok especially when it's become routine.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • aerostable_slug 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > one day you may find 10 years have got behind you

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Is it a bad sign that I heard that in David Gilmour's and Richard Wright's voices?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • ctoth 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I was literally reading with a screen reader and my brain stopped listening to the speech after this sentence to play that clip of audio. I even got the music.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • barbazoo 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I can't really relate to this. There is a spectrum of how high you get. Maybe we should distinguish between getting super stoned, just sitting on the couch watching TV and smoking half a joint, going for a walk in nature and listen to music or cook or bake.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • aerostable_slug 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            With psychedelics some refer to a "museum dose" — that amount you can use that would allow a person to visit an art museum and enjoy the experience. There are similarities with cannabis and other drugs (including alcohol of course).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That said, sometimes a little dab is enough to throw things off — fun story: I was practicing the Filipino Martial Arts and my teacher had a hit off a blunt some fellows practicing kinda-wushu in the same park were passing around. His ability to count out our drills went to hell, but in generally all other ways he was fine. It was very humorous at the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • Peritract 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > a "museum dose" — that amount you can use that would allow a person to visit an art museum and enjoy the experience

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              This feels sad to me, and sounds like another angle on the same issue raised above.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You should be able to enjoy/engage with culture while sober; I'd describe needing to be high to connect with art as a dependency and a problem.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • barbazoo 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I think what they meant was a dose that still lets you enjoy it, not a dose required to enjoy it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • aaaaaaaaata 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Stoned is the former, high is the latter.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • tacheiordache 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I smoke very little, not enough to get high. This helps me practice musical instruments and do other tedious stuff. I never ever do nothing when on it, maybe the small quantity has the opposite effect, at least for me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • eurasiantiger 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                What about people who use cannabis to work, e.g. people with ADHD or PTSD?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • codebolt 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For a few unlucky people, it really can have disastrous side effects as described in this article. At the risk of stigmatising myself, I suffered through cannabis induced psychosis and lived to tell the tale. And I can promise that it's absolutely a real phenomenon, and one that's not adequately recognised in 'stoner culture'.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • drekipus 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I am too!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Had a really large 3 day psychosis (including blabbering on Facebook for all to see), and ended up being locked into "involuntary mental health" ward in hospital for 2 weeks, 6 months of recovery with a nurse and 6 years of putting my life back together. Started smoking when I was 18 and had the breakdown just after 21st birthday.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I feel like weed did help me get me out of my shell at the start, but looking back now, I was in a bad place and what I needed was a bigger perspective on life. Being high and browsing the internet / playing games with friends helped that perspective, but it could've came gently.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Now I've got a degree, a good job, a wife and kid :) - not many people I knew from the era still talk to me though, me going nuts was the last impression they got.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • codebolt 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I see some parallels but my own problems spiralled a bit further than yours. I was struggling with hallucinations and paranoia on and off for a period of a few years in my early twenties (but luckily didn't leave a trace on social media).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It started after a period of habitual smoking and got progressively worse anytime I smoked. Mental health ward twice (once in a country where I didn't speak the language, but that's another story). Haven't had any problems since I cleaned up my lifestyle and fully ditched weed many years ago. These days I'm also happily married with kids (three), a house and a decent career.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • honkycat 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > As time goes on it won't feel "fun" it'll just feel "normal". And you just won't get as much out of your life as you could get, won't achieve as much relationship success, professional success, or personal fulfillment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You can form a bad relationship with literally anything. Social media, television, video games.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The smartest and most passionate developer I have ever known smoked weed literally every day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There are many musicians who use marijuana regularly. They perform, practice, and achieve at a level I can only IMAGINE.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What you are really talking about here is something nefarious: Self medication. Personally, I self medicate because I have a very busy mind and I need something to slow my brain down at the end of the day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Other people self medicate due to depression. This IS bad. It is a way to escape reality because you are unhappy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Anecdote: I smoked weed in high school pretty frequently. Then, I left for college, was super busy, didn't have any money, so I didn't smoke weed for almost a decade.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Eventually I moved to a state that has legal weed, and I bought a joint, and I smoked it. And I found something: It wasn't just youthful rebellion, I enjoy being a little stoned! So now I do it occasionally.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • effingwewt 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is how I cope. My brain runs away with me, coupled with OCD (people love to romanticize it byt forget about the obsessive/compulsive part). With that and depression and anxiety, the meds prescribed to me were insane, as were the side effects (many permanent too- fuck that). Weed was the lesser of the evils. I don't drink because aside from the fact that I hate the taste of alcohol, what I really detest is the loss of self control. I spend most of my waking and much of my sleeping time trying to keep one thing or another under control. I don't have to fight them nearly so much with weed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I know it's an imperfect solution to myriad problems, but it helps me greatly,but I very much realize I am self medicating.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    When I quit smoking weed it takes me about a year to get back to full 'normal'. But I'm also miserable. I can't sleep, I wake in the night in the middle of thoughts that are making me anxious or whatever. I eat too much, I have less energy. I simply become better at hiding my issues.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • honkycat 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You should look into Zoloft. A lot of my friends and family take it for anxiety.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It is a pretty safe, minor, and not intense anxiety medication that I hear has a bit of a funky/fun edge to it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I was gonna start on it next month to try it out.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • effingwewt 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I did, but one of the side effects it had for me was it killed my sex drive completely. I know in the grand scope of things it may not be important, and maybe I'm being a child, but if I'm being honest I can't handle that on top of goings-on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I had a friend get a permanent twitch from it, too, but of the people that I know that take it (that I know of), those are the only bad side effects I've really heard of.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        On top of that it can still be very physically addictive and hard to wean off of.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I do thank you greatly, I had been pretty excited to try it. I hope it works out for you, I just seem to catch nasty side effects.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        May it work for you and your days be peaceful!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • surement 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > I have a very busy mind and I need something to slow my brain down

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm taking this a bit out of context but this is the biggest benefit for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      While sativa can make my mind rush with ideas, it also helps slow things down, especially if I'm learning something. It gives me the patience to do things at the right pace rather than try to rush to get results. This holds for things as varied as learning kubernetes (e.g. going back and forth between documents to make sure everything makes sense rather than only going forward even where there are bits that I don't fully grasp) or making sure I have the proper form during weight lifting (e.g. using lower weights when I notice a discomfort somewhere – I'm much more sensitive to these things while stoned – instead of powering through a too-high load and injuring myself, thus setting my progress back).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • xbar 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This is an old 4% strength THC I-used-to-be-a-stoner argument that is completely irrelevant to the "real" dangers (multiple) to teenagers, which include: concentrated THC in teenagers causes psychosis; moderate THC in teenagers makes them permanently less intelligent.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      THC users like to downplay them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • solitus 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Can you provide sources for "moderate THC in teenagers makes them permanently less intelligent".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This study implies that it's not really true:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • nobody9999 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > This is an old 4% strength THC I-used-to-be-a-stoner argument that is completely irrelevant to the "real" dangers (multiple) to teenagers, which include: concentrated THC in teenagers causes psychosis; moderate THC in teenagers makes them permanently less intelligent.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        >THC users like to downplay them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What would you have us do then? There are minimum legal ages for using legal cannabis as well as alcohol and tobacco.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That doesn't stop teens from trying it out, nor has it ever done so.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Archaeologists have documented the use of mind altering substances by humans going back at least 8-10,000 years, and it's very likely that such usage goes back much, much farther (e.g., our distant ancestors getting drunk from eating fermenting fruit millions of years ago).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The issue isn't whether or not people should use mind alterng substances, we have done so and we will continue to do so.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The advice I gave to those in the younger generation of my family is that "we've been using mind altering substances pretty much forever. And most people handle it just fine. But if using such substances interferes with your goals and/or functioning as a person in society, there's likely a problem."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Which is why I believe all "drugs" should be legal, with purity and dosages regulated.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From an economic standpoint, it makes a lot of sense. We could spend a fraction of what we spend on "interdiction," "enforcement," incarceration and lost economic output (the result of incarceration and bias against those who have been incarcerated) on treatment programs for the tiny proportion of us for whom using mind altering substances keep us from functioning normally in society.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That makes much more sense to me. Trying to stop folks from doing stuff we've been doing since before we were us (humans), is a fool's errand.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Let's help those who have issues and leave everyone else the hell alone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • xbar 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I heard you say "we need to regulate cannabis more effectively." I think that makes sense.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I also think we better get used to the consequences of an increasingly psychotic teen population.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • nobody9999 7 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >I heard you say "we need to regulate cannabis more effectively." I think that makes sense.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I heard you say absolutely nothing of any semantic value, and certainly nothing that added to the conversation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • krnlpnc 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Like anything it's about balance. The same could be said about working every day, at all different times of the day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        There is something to be said for turning off the part of the brain that worries about being productive all the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Claiming a few 4 hour blocks over the course of a week as your own time to "zone out" and do whatever activity you like is not a bad thing. For some people cannabis helps them get in that zone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • geekbird 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This. I know a lot of people who need to just ... stop. They always have to be busy, doing something "productive" or "beneficial". They don't take time to just be, to stop and smell the roses.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          My problem with sleeping was trying to turn off my geek brain long enough to get to sleep and stay 5that way. Weed helps with that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • iamdbtoo 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This argument always pops up as if there aren't a wealth of very successful daily cannabis users.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • darth_avocado 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There are a wealth of very successful alcoholics and cocaine users too. On an average, alcoholism and cocaine dependence still ruins life. Don’t look at the exceptions to define the average.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • graublau 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2x drinks at a happy hour isn't successful alcoholism, that's just a lack of cultural stigma.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I also slightly doubt casual cocaine won't catch up with you eventually, might take years. Stimulants are generally work friendly anyway, see coffee/adderall.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • bobkazamakis 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                >There are a wealth of very successful alcoholics and cocaine users too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Not for as long of a duration. Apples to oranges.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • adamsmith143 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There are also a wealth of very unsuccessful people who don't partake in drugs or alcohol. These points prove nothing
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • margalabargala 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That's because the existence of outliers doesn't disprove the existence of a trend.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Saying that there are successful daily cannabis users and therefore chronic cannabis use doesn't have negative effects on one's brain, is similar to saying that you're holding a snowball and therefore global warming doesn't exist.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • iamdbtoo 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > That's because the existence of outliers doesn't disprove the existence of a trend.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yeah, exactly. Either way it proves nothing about a person or their life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • margalabargala 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It means the person you originally replied to was correct to call it a "danger", because while it doesn't preclude the possibility of success as you noted, it does make it less likely for a given individual.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • iamdbtoo 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No, it doesn't. It just proves the whole point is meaningless. There are successes and failures in both weed users and non-weed users, so you can't use that as a variable for anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Interepting it that way just always casts judgement on the user.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • margalabargala 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > There are successes and failures in both weed users and non-weed users, so you can't use that as a variable for anything.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That's not how that works. The existence of both successes and failures in weed users does not prevent a comparison of the rates of successes and failures between weed users and non-weed-users.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Making the above comparison and noting that successes per capita are lower in weed users of an otherwise identical demographic doesn't cast judgement on anyone.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • sandworm101 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yes, many successful (ie rich) people smoke pot and do not suffer because of it. Those traits are not related. Rich people do not suffer most of the negative social/financial side effects of drugs use. That's the great thing about being rich. It insulates you against most negative consequences of your actions. Normal (ie poor) people do not have such protections. They suffer massively.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    A 100$/day habit for a wealthy person is nothing and, unlike cocaine, that addiction will not ramp up into a 1000$/day habit. But for the not-rich that 100$/day is devastating.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Bud 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are certainly consequences to cannabis use, but let's not get carried away.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      At least for the vast majority of casual users, this isn't anything remotely close to a $100/day habit. Common sense should inform us of that, even if we aren't intimately familiar with how much pot actually costs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      $5-10 a day is closer to the reality for most users.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • sandworm101 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Flat-out 24/7 high would be 100/day. Pot is a drug that successful people can sustain without any financial issues. Compare cocaine which can quickly ramp into 1000/day and beyond, quickly devastating the finances of even relatively wealthy people.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • sleepdreamy 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This is simply false. I'm not going to discuss pricing here but, with Dabs and several forms of in-take you do not need to spend 100/day to be stoned all day. I live in a recreational state(Lived here for 13 years while it could ruin your life).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          In the past this might hold true but no longer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • darth_aardvark 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            At the peak of my own usage, I smoked around an ounce every 3 days while (pretending to be) working from home. $40/eighth + taxes a pretty average price in the Bay Area, so that works out to almost exactly $100/day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That's pretty extreme, even for heavy smokers, but far from impossible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • sleepdreamy 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              An OZ every 3 days is pretty insane I'm gonna be honest. You must've been rolling everything to go through that. Using pieces helps a lot. Hope you're doing well
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • darth_aardvark 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I can't even roll a joint. Just bong rips all day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And yeah, definitely not a sustainable or healthy habit...I'm ok now, but my career took a permanent hit. Oh well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • surement 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've seen billboards in other states advertising $5 eighths; probably not the same quality but it's not necessarily as expensive as you make it out to be.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • darth_aardvark 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yeah, I wasn't spending $100/day because I'd buy cheap weed in bulk, look for deals and sales, etc. But if you buy 'irresonsibly' and just pick up like an average eighth from a dispensary, it can be pricey.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I realize I'm being pretty pedantic here, you're right that spend $100/day requires massive usage plus buying moderately expensive weed. But it's not, technically, impossible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • gunfighthacksaw 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Bruh I can cop $99/oz and that lasts me for 2 months. If I wanted to be permafried, maybe 2-3 weeks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Der_Einzige 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hold on, maybe living in Oregon has spoiled me, but 100$ buys like 3 1gram cartridges or more than an oz of weed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Who the duck is smoking that much in one day???? I don't know a single one of my massively addicted stoner friends who do even a third of that in a day...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • iamdbtoo 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            While this might be technically true, I don't think it's the case for the vast majority.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • tboyd47 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The scale of human potential is vast. Who's to say that, for a given definition of success, a person who's "very successful" with one lifestyle wouldn't be 10x or 100x more successful in another?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • sandoze 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Who’s to say what my full potential could have been if it wasn’t for all the lead paint in my house as a kid?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • cortesoft 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Are you suggesting we shouldn’t remove lead paint from houses? Yes, we can’t know exactly on an individual level what potential was lost to lead paint, but we know it was some amount. Can we not act if we don’t know the exact loss?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • aaaaaaaaata 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ..did you eat it?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • iamdbtoo 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Who's to say anything about anyone? We only get one shot at this. There's no perfect way to live a life.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • akhmatova 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sure, we all know a few.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But overwhelming personal observation indicates that in the vast majority of cases -- it blunts your game (and if you pick up the habit in your teenage years, and don't manage to put it behind you -- it can derail your chances at completing your education, or maintaining successful relationships entirely).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Again, not from the toxicity - but simply from what it does.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • wazoox 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't know any, but I know a whole lot of dope-heads who completely destroyed their lives with daily use of cannabis.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • jejeyyy77 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Probably many more under the radar too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • worker_person 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yep my daughter had a friend introduce her. She spent 5 years on it. 100% dependent on it. Entire time swearing up and down it didn't affect her. Of course we could all tell.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Only when her finance had a psychotic breakdown and tried to kill everyone from it did she finally get off of it. Was 2 months before he didn't sound like an anime villain who was going to take over the world.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      She keeps commenting at much more energy and less depressed she is, how she isn't always irritated at everything. She had no idea it was affecting her like that. For us we have our sweet loving and caring daughter back.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • soared 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You are definitely not talking about weed
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • worker_person 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yes. I actually am. They both smoked it. She said it seemed fine. He went insane. They tested him. Weed was only thing in system. Full blown psychosis. He had God talking to him. He was God. He was going to have hurt my daughter in divine punishment. He crapped in the tub. His computer was all powerful and was controlling the world. He showed up at his work to hurt them. That's when we found out about it. He got hauled off to a mental facility where they had to keep him tied down for multiple days. Kept trying to hurt the staff. When he stopped being violent, he was still highly delusional for a solid month.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Bottom line, he can never touch weed again. They can't be around people that do. They've lost most of their friends. Friends didn't agree about them giving up weed. They are starting to make new friends.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          They are doing far better now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • jejeyyy77 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Sounds like reefer madness type claims to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You can give someone a hamburger and some people will abuse it til they are obese. It's a personality thing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      To me, the most alarming trend I see among people nowadays is cell phones - people are checking notifications all day like its crack.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • mistermann 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The danger is simply that you will like it, you'll end up using it every day, all different times of the day, and it won't really hurt your health as much as it will make you live your life in a somewhat dopey, detached, less-intelligent way. As time goes on it won't feel "fun" it'll just feel "normal". And you just won't get as much out of your life as you could get, won't achieve as much relationship success, professional success, or personal fulfillment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As a general rule, I don't disagree, although there could be other important variables in place here as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        An alternative outcome is that one spends their time thinking about intelligent and important things (that few other people think about), except they may not have an easy route to monetization (professional success) for various reasons that are not the fault of drugs, and in some cases arguably due to a lack of more widespread drug usage, or simple diversity in thinking and discussion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • yeahNo88 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Huh as a daily smoker who has held titles like “head of infosec” and currently am self employed (self motivated) as a freelancer, I can confidently say this is BS

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It’s like anything else; confusing and obtuse then you learn to live with it

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No one learns to code before writing bad code. Some of my best and simplest ideas came to me while high af simply because other routine daily thoughts were out of the way

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Kindly stop peddling tropes from a place of ignorance and actually figure it out subjectively for yourself. Other peoples tolerances are not the same as yours. Like everything else it’s gradients, ranges, and distributions

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Edit: my only non-typical stoner trope is I did not smoke until I was 27. I had life experience behind me. A non-trivial detail. I am 43 now

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • tresqotheq 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >And you just won't get as much out of your life as you could get, won't achieve as much relationship success, professional success, or personal fulfillment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            So, like being addicted to an Internet connected, social media infested smartphone?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • tempestn 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Watched my dad struggle with this for much of his life. Smoked (cigarettes) from 12 until his early 50s, and pot from some point early in life until late 50s. Struggled for years to quit both, but he says the pot was harder to give up. It may not be a physiological addiction, but you can sure develop a strong habitual/emotional dependency. Certainly watching him struggle with it was enough to make me never want to go down that road.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • aaaaaaaaata 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Did he "need something" before he started trying things? Or only after?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                PS Love your work on AutoTempest; the top ten lists I found with some clicking (maybe a partner thing) were really enjoyable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • tempestn 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think it started as a teenage rebellion sort of thing. Certainly the smoking did. Then later on the culture of the 60s-70s probably played into it. But then as the original comment talked about it definitely developed into a psychological dependency. Thankfully he's been happy done with all that for good for quite a while now. (Must be 15-20 years or so now.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And thanks, I definitely got lucky kind of accidentally finding a viable business niche with searchtempest and then autotempest, and building on that. It's a fun way to earn a living for sure.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • BobbyJo 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This isn't really a danger of weed so much as a danger of the modern world.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have given up smoking for long periods at several points in my life. Sometimes I filled the time productively, sometimes I filled it with TV, video games, the internet, etc. The modern world afford people many ways to be happy doing nothing, weed just happens to be one of several that are very good at the job.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • globular-toast 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  This is exactly what happened to me. Luckily it was only a few months and I identified it quickly enough and stopped using it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But having said that, I know a lot of people who have lives I consider dull but never use cannabis. So it might be nothing to do with the drug at all. After all, I was still able to quit easily. It wasn't like a heroin addiction or something.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • RichardCA 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The difficulty is how do you separate that issue from the other connected issue: Lots of people use weed to self-medicate for anxiety. How much anxiety is needed to create a sense of motivation and "stakes" in the day-to-day operation of your life?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Anecdotally, I've known people who were prescribed pharmaceutical anti-anxiety meds and done far worse with that feeling of weightlessness and removal of stakes, like you're just wandering around in the Matrix until something bad happens like a car accident. I mean yes that happens on weed (again, anecdotally) but we have no controlled studies about it, and it absolutely should be studied.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So yes, valid point, but it's the tip of a much deeper iceberg.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • rayiner 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Saw exactly this happen to a very bright friend of mine from high school.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Synaesthesia 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It actually can make you feel sick if you smoke too much, there is a rare syndrome called Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome, and it's agonizing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • wilsonnb3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The article specifically mentions Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome so I assume this is the "nasty side effect like this article describes." that they are referring to.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • iasay 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So much this. Lost a couple of friends to it. Their entire life is about it. They forgot all the other good things they were and did.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • vladsanchez 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Same message I told my kids! The danger is that you'll like it and you'll end up in a life of misery.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • m0llusk 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              refer madness 2.0; better let starbucks distribute the psychoactives
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • eurasiantiger 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                As a person living with complex PTSD, my experience is the polar opposite of what is described in the parent comment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I could not have relationships or work at all without medicinal cannabis, and there is really no difference between it and recreational cannabis in terms of efficacy, as long as the strain matches somewhat closely.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • nisegami 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I know this wasn't your intention, but this is the most compelling argument to try it that I've ever heard.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • lacker 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you are ever going to try any illegal drug in your life, a vape pen with cannabis is probably the way to do it. It's pretty safe and the effect is really not crazy, it's sort of on the order of magnitude of alcohol. And soon it probably won't even be an "illegal drug" any more - where I live in California it's legal enough that you can simply walk into a store and buy some.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • hirvi74 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > And you just won't get as much out of your life as you could get, won't achieve as much relationship success, professional success, or personal fulfillment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Chicken vs. the Egg.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Perhaps many are drawn to cannabis due to the inability to achieve such goals due to whatever individual or societal issues/reasons one may have.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • dubeye 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes definitely. I love weed and everytime i buy some, I always really enjoy it for a couple of days, without any immediate negative impacton life. but routine sets in, and I just turn into a shadow of myself until i run out. I try to just use it rarely but daily use is too tempting.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • naravara 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I can't help but wonder if normalizing regular use of increasingly potent weed correlating with dramatic increases in anxiety disorders among young people are related.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yeah there's the general state of the world, economic precarity among families, the effects of social media, the education system and society in general deprioritizing developing resilience and coping skills as part of children's upbringings, etc. I'm sure they all contribute, but I have a hard time believing the weed is helping.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In most cultural practices that revolve around psychoactive substances it's typical to embed them in sort of a ritual context. Alcohol is pretty obvious, but even things like tea ceremonies or ritual practices around use of hallucinogens match. The modern "clinical" approach of just focusing on consuming the substance without any social or cultural thing around it is probably the wrong way to go about things. We do this with alcohol, for example, where we have some socially understood norms about healthy and unhealthy ways of using it, in particular not drinking alone as a habit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • INTPenis 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          As a wise person once said; Drugs are amazing, drugs are so good they will literally ruin your life.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • ativzzz 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The article is opposite of your point- that modern cannabis products are much more potent than ever before and that young people who consume them regularly are prone to severe psychiatric repercussions beyond just "being a stoner"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • acchow 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I've found the secret to marijuana not taking away from your personal fulfillment is to limit it to the end of the day before sleeping which would already be spent consuming passively (such as watching TV).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • eurasiantiger 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From experience, getting high every night like that is a more problematic usage pattern than dosing steadily throughout the day and not getting especially high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • Overtonwindow 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This has been a serious issue of mine. I have serious PTSD and anxiety, and nothing has ever worked like cannabis. Not even close. However it has a detrimental effect on my work output.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • GrumpyNl 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I did most and best creative programming under influence, it also made me suicidal. I have stopped completely. Do i miss it, yes. Will i get back to it, i doubt it but its hard.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • s5300 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sounds like something people should be free to choose
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • pojzon 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      But! You will be more likely to accept the world as it is - thus making it legal everywhere has great benefits. Mostly for ruling bodies.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • rs999gti 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > The danger is simply that you will like it

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I like bourbon and gin, but I don't drink both everyday.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As they say, "everything in moderation."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • jayd16 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If this is "the real danger" then is the potency issue irrelevant? Are we already experiencing peak danger?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • semitones 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I think you are absolutely correct. This is my experience and viewpoint as well.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • yourgranny 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I did this with video games.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • akhmatova 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You nailed it -- that's exactly what makes habitual use of the substance so insidious.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Like, why deal with life (which involves risk and rejection, and ick, work) when you can just blast trippy movies through your head all day? (Fun though these movies can be, for a while).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • alexk307 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Have you ever used cannabis as a medicine or daily for a long period of time? Do you think we all just watch movies and act like morons all day? Why do you care if other people do or don’t want to deal with your version of life?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • akhmatova 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Why do you care ...?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't. It's just an observation. That doesn't mean I care.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • gunfighthacksaw 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Apologies to mods for low effort reply to low effort post but you obviously care enough to have posted and responded.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • akhmatova 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No - I care (somewhat) about basic factual accuracy when it comes to public health debates.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What I don't care about is [sic] "other people do or don’t want to deal with your version of life?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • adamsmith143 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          >No - I care (somewhat) about basic factual accuracy when it comes to public health debates.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Huh what facts were in your post?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • alexk307 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > No - I care (somewhat) about basic factual accuracy when it comes to public health debates.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What facts did you state during this debate? You just asserted your opinion that cannabis causes people to stop caring and only watch movies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • adamsmith143 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Wait until you find out how many people blast Netflix through their head for hours a day while stone sober...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • dhzhzjsbevs 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Yes. These days I blast educational YouTube tech talks through my brain instead.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Can't exactly tell whether it was better before or now.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • the_only_law 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yeah, tbh I know it's not particularly healthy, but before I was just going to the bar every damn night to stave away boredom.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • sydthrowaway 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The solution is simple. Hate what you like.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • photochemsyn 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This line has been reliably trotted out every few years since the 1990s at least:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But experts say today’s high-THC cannabis products — vastly different than the joints smoked decades ago — are poisoning some heavy users, including teenagers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The issue is that people adjust their consumption accordingly, just as with alcohol - drinking one liter of beer, everyone knows, is not the same as drinking one liter of vodka. Concentrated hash products were also widely available in past eras. Imagine a headline like "Concentrated alcohol products cause vomiting in teenagers! It's not your parent's booze!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Regardless, THC negatively impairs learning, as does alcohol, particular when it comes to memory and retention. People who choose to use such substances recreationally should really moderate their intake and not engage in daily use.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This doesn't apply to people who use cannabis for legitimate medical uses, such as an adjunct to opiates to manage serious chronic pain without crossing the addictive threshold with opiates (i.e. avoiding opiate tolerance, which leads to opiate addiction).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • ineptech 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yeah, I'm calling BS.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1) That line has been trotted out continuously because weed potency has been going up continuously. In the late 90s, good weed was anything above 4-5% THC; the store near my house currently has nothing below 23%. For your beer/liquor analogy to work, you'd have to live somewhere where the bottle shop only sells triple IPAs and fortified wine, and Coors is in the soft drink section.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2) I don't believe there was anywhere in the US where hash products were "widely available" before legalization. And believe me, I was looking! Back then, using hash every day was an expensive and exotic thing to do, like owning an albino tiger. Today it's commonplace and costs less than a dollar a day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3) You're ignoring the entire point of the article, which is people getting sick. I don't think cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome existed a generation ago. If you'd told me in 1999 that you knew a daily pot smoker who accidentally smoked too much and had to go to the ER, I would've said no way, physically not possible. Today, totally plausible. If everyone just "adjusted their consumption" this would not be true.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • photochemsyn 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1) Concentrated hash was widely available in California in the 1980s, and the strength of locally grown strains then was little different than it is today. Perhaps this was not true in East Coast or other regions of the USA. There was an active import market from Asia at the time as well, not just from Mexico.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2) If people want low-concentration cannabis (though why anyone would want to fill their lungs with soot and ash is beyond my comprehension), it's easy enough to grow your own and cure the leaf material for the purpose instead of the flower material - the cannabis shops simply don't find this profitable, nor do the growers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            3) Back in the 1980s and 1990s, there were definitely cases of people getting sick and having to go to the ER, although then it was from eating too many pot brownies. It was definitely a fairly common occurence, just the source was not gummies or resin from cannabis shops.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Personally I don't think alcohol or cannabis have many positives, and I like having a nice clear memory and a fog-free thinking process so I avoid them more and more as I get older, but these kind of articles are just so reminiscent of Nancy Reagan's 'think of the children' pearl-clutching nonsense. If people's kids are so pressured that they turn to drugs and alcohol for relief as teenagers, that's more of a symptom of bad parenting (typically too much high-pressure expectation nonsense, if not actual abuse) than anything else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • ineptech 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Concentrated hash was widely available in California in the 1980s

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't believe this for a second. I mean, maybe it was "widely available" compared to uranium-238, but not compared to concentrated hash today (which is what we're discussing). THC oil today is cheap enough and ubiquitous enough for minimum wage/homeless people to use daily, there's no way that was true before legalization.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > the strength of locally grown strains then was little different than it is today

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              First off, this contradicts every source I can find, as well as common sense (have all of the industry's attempts to breed more potent strains over the past three decades been abysmal failures?). But I did some research just for fun to confirm that; here are my results:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2013: Most potent strain ever tested in the history of the High Times Cannabis Cup was 28.35% (according to )

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2022: Most potent strain I found by picking a random midwestern city (Ypsilanti, MI) and clicking on the first weed shop in the search results: 33.07% (according to )

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Second, supposing they were growing 33% bud in Humboldt in the 80s, surely you would agree that most US pot smokers weren't able to get it. Today they can, which supports the assertion of the article.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > these kind of articles are just so reminiscent of Nancy Reagan's 'think of the children' pearl-clutching nonsense.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It's seductive but erroneous to assume that everything an idiot says is false.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • scythe 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              >That line has been trotted out continuously because weed potency has been going up continuously. In the late 90s, good weed was anything above 4-5% THC; the store near my house currently has nothing below 23%. For your beer/liquor analogy to work, you'd have to live somewhere where the bottle shop only sells triple IPAs and fortified wine, and Coors is in the soft drink section.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              While there definitely was a crescendo of potency, it largely peaked. The plants simply won't grow beyond about 33% THC. But 25% was available eight years ago. One review says that seedless marijuana ("sin semilla") averaged 11.5% THC as of 1997:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Still, I've got to figure it's an advantage in terms of health to take three hits from a glass bowl instead of two dozen pulls on a joint. There's no real disadvantage to drinking beer instead of whisky like there is with weed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I can't speak to hash. I don't like it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • rrrrrrrrrrrryan 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > There's no real disadvantage to drinking beer instead of whisky like there is with weed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Lower ABV products generally have more calories per unit of alcohol. Getting drunk off of beer every day will give you a beer gut. Whisky might not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Seltzers change this equation somewhat, as most of them are essentially vodka sodas with some flavor and artificial sweetener.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • scythe 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  500 mL of Guinness (for example) has an ABV of 4.2% and offers 177 calories. 500*0.042 = 21 mL of ethanol with a density of 0.789 which is 16.57 grams at 7 calories per gram or about 115 calories, which is around 65% of the total calorie content. So yes, you can save about a third of the calories by cutting out other components, but the major caloric component in the typical alcoholic beverage is alcohol. In practice, I'd wager most liquor is consumed with added sugar.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • rrrrrrrrrrrryan 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Perhaps surprisingly, Guinness is actually one of the most efficient beers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I only know this because I built a stupid android app one afternoon in college that let you look up different drinks to see how to get drunk without getting fat. (It was named "ThinWasted," which I thought was very clever.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • ineptech 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                edit to add: for all that, if we're asking what's changed in the last twenty years, I don't think the change in potency is as important as the change in cost and convenience. Sure, there were people who stayed high all day in the 90s, but it was a difficult, expensive, and inconvenient thing to do. It just isn't anymore, so it's no surprise that more people do it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • onlyrealcuzzo 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Adjusted consumption is interesting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Kids get their stomachs pumped from alcohol poisoning all the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hardly ever is it from beer. It's almost always from liquor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Drugs have a delayed response. You won't adjust until you start responding - which can be too late.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • yodsanklai 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Drugs have a delayed response.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You feel the effect of smoking weed pretty much right away. As a consequence, it's easier to get sick with alcohol than when smoking weed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > Adjusted consumption is interesting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Reasonable people do adjust their consumption if they want to. You can tell when something is very potent before it harms you, whether it's inhaled weed or alcohol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Now teens don't always behave as reasonable adults. The best thing to do is to educate them on the topic of drugs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • pessimizer 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      That's a special case. The sheer volume of beer that it requires to give you alcohol poisoning is often larger than your stomach. If you're drinking a "lite" beer, you're drinking slightly piss-flavored water.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There are no volume issues with pot. You can smoke an enormous amount of weak pot or a tiny amount of strong pot, and it will take up exactly the same amount of space in your lungs: none, unless you forget to exhale.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • micromacrofoot 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      All my life the only people I've heard going to the ER for weed are the people who got too high (usually via edibles) and just freaked out and called 911. I wonder if there are any physical indications of this illness, or if it's a name they've given to something they can't quite figure out.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • kromem 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      You are wrong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      CBD is a very effective antipsychotic that occurs naturally alongside the THC:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What percent of products sold for recreational use in dispensaries have a 1:1 or greater ratio of CBD?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      So no, there actually is a confirmable mechanism by which the legal product being sold today is significantly less safe in terms of psychosis related side effects than the illegal products from years ago.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And everyone is still so sensitive to regulatory overreach from those years ago that they are stubbornly turning a blind eye to the underlying pharmacological evidence for that danger.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      10mg of THC alone and 10mg of THC with 10-20mg of CBD will have very similar euphoric effects. But the latter will be much less likely to result in delusional side effects, for which constant daily use can build up into a full-blown psychotic episode as in the case mentioned in the article.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • pessimizer 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        > Regardless, THC negatively impairs learning,[...] particular when it comes to memory and retention.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This is true, and I believed it without caveat until I was in my 30s, and met a very productive programmer who smoked when they studied. Learning under the influence of cannabis is just something that has to be practiced, and since people rarely study stoned, they rarely get to that point. After you've realized this, cannabis just allows you to study longer and more imaginatively.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't had the example, and the practice that I used was playing the game minesweeper under the influence. I do feel that I might have ruined some of the joy in being stoned, I never feel as out of control or confused as I could feel before, but I'm now of the belief that this was weird cultural baggage. When you're intoxicated, society gives you permission to be out of control, so you feel that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I've always known people who drank for the impunity. The kind of people who start saying and doing unforgivable shit and slurring their speech after the first can of O'Doul's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • jb1991 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The issue is that people adjust their consumption accordingly

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          That was definitely not true in my case. I used to consume pretty high-% THC hash throughout the day. At first it was strong and I did it once every day or two. But you get tolerant and can handle a lot more. Eventually I was smoking hash several times a day and I ended up with a lot of the symptoms described in this article (though I am in my 30s). I realized I needed to quit, and the off-ramp was terribly long and frightening; I was very hooked both physically and emotionally and I haven't touched any form of THC since, though it did take me close to a year to feel normal again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Interesting to me that sharing my experience with THC addiction has deserved downvotes. Sigh.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • allturtles 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > The issue is that people adjust their consumption accordingly, just as with alcohol - drinking one liter of beer, everyone knows, is not the same as drinking one liter of vodka.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It's easy to tell by looking at it that vodka is not beer. In fact you can often tell how alcoholic a beverage is just by sniffing it. Is the same true for different intensities of cannabis? In any case, hard liquor is certainly far more dangerous than beer (when you hear about college kids who died of alcohol poisoning, it's always from liquor - the physical limits of the stomach generally prevent you from getting worse than a night of vomiting and a hangover from beer). So I'm not sure that the analogy to alcohol is helpful to cannabis.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • bergenty 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you buy it from a store they have THC %s listed on the container. Knowing vodka was more potent is a learned behavior and there’s an entire culture that propagates that knowledge. The same can happen for weed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • allturtles 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              When I was a teen, most alcohol/cannabis I consumed was at some social gathering and was procured by someone else. Granted that was a long time ago, but I assume that hasn't changed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • runarberg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            idk. Beer can range from 0.0% up to 12%. 5% Sake is not uncommon but you can easily find 20% sake. And then Sake bottles are not that much different from Vodka.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I think the difference is more in the consumption. It is hard to drink a lot of hard alcohol at once. You usually get more drunk over your consumption period. And—barring any behavior disorders—you can cease consumption. With weed it is easy to smoke a lot of really strong weed not realizing until too late that you’ve had more than you wanted.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • bowsamic 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The problem is that it's almost impossible to find the "beer" of weed now. Almost all weed has been upgraded to be super powered. If I want a joint, I have to use tobacco or catnip to fill it out unless I want to be steaming.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I also think that the weed culture is hostile against suggestions of problems. Almost every time I have spoken about possible dangers of weed, even when presenting peer reviewed articles or meta analysis, I have been angrily shouted down. Unfortunately weed users have been prosecuted for so long that they take a dogmatic view about its benefits.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • pessimizer 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > If I want a joint

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Just give up the idea of joints. You don't have to conform to weed culture or tradition (or marketing) to smoke weed. As an act, smoking isn't particularly pleasurable (although I have to admit that smoke is mildly entertaining.) How about taking 2-3 hits from a water pipe, vape, or just an old-school pipe, and spending the rest of the night drinking something you enjoy? Have some tea instead of smoking more pot. Popcorn is very good, and fairly low-calorie.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • bowsamic 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Popcorn is actually really calorific

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But anyway I like joints and so do a lot of people, I don’t see this as a solution

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • lolcat_cowsay 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                yeah very high percentage THC in nearly every variant of weed these days, for me having a joint with tiny sprinkles of weed completely fucks me up, I just choose to have hash with lower THC percentage, plus hash tastes nice. I think that the really strong stuff should be for medical patients, or people with really high tolerance, because for a teenager that doesn't know what it can do, it can really ruin them if they keep having it, especially since the strong stuff is more addictive aswell.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • bowsamic 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In most countries we don’t have such freedom of choice, so we only get the high THc stuff
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • officeplant 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Everyone I know who wants the lite beer of weed has turned to home growing. I wish I lived in a state that allowed me to do that without fear.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • oh_sigh 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Imagine a headline like "Concentrated alcohol products cause vomiting in teenagers! It's not your parent's booze!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  During the Gin Craze, sure:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > It is with the deepest concern your committee observe the strong Inclination of the inferior Sort of People to these destructive Liquors, and how surprisingly this Infection has spread within these few Years ... it is scarce possible for Persons in low Life to go anywhere or to be anywhere, without being drawn in to taste, and, by Degrees, to like and approve of this pernicious Liquor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • raxxorraxor 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > The issue is that people adjust their consumption accordingly, just as with alcohol

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Eh, I don't believe that. Especially with weed there is not much to indicate dosage and the addiction is often to tobacco too which motivates people to smoke another joint. It is true that plants got more potent too. At least this is the case in Europe where weed is a bit different than in the US.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    But I guess the most immediate danger is that drugs are increasingly being laced with other stuff.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • undersuit 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I track my cannabis consumption. Every time I buy I record the weight, price, date, and strain info. My daily consumption in grams per day averages out to 1.5g. Yet there are days when I'm consuming 3+ grams, and if you look at my spreadsheet you can see that more often then not those heavy days fall in a row. I'm not having days where I intake more THC, I'm having days where I consume more cannabis than normal from an inferior batch that has a property like low THC, poor growth, or incomplete curing.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • conductr 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        In the 90s as a teen the height of my pothead days I was consuming an ounce a day, that's 28g. I smoked joints like a pack-a-day tobacco user.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Now, I consume at most 1-1.5g a day. And that's a high all day kind of day for me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I'd say my tolerance is down because I don't consume regularly or nearly as much but the main difference is in the 90s I only had access to mexican brick (low THC) and now I wouldn't touch that stuff if you paid me. Oddly, I do miss the act of just having a long smoking session but there's no way at current potency I can even justify rolling a joint when 2-3 hits sit me down. So there's definitely some substance to the potency being a self regulator.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        For a time, I grew hydroponically and if anything is making people sick, my bet or first inclination would be to see if it's the nutrients not being properly flushed before harvest. I'm not sure if there are any regs on that stuff yet?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • sohdas 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          virtually no teenagers or college students do any of this.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • officeplant 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            We were fairly aware of our usage and strain potency back in University in 2007. But this just might be what happens when you get a bunch of stoner biology, engineering, and tech students all living together.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • undersuit 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm in agreement that marijuana use is self limiting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm not arguing that people need or should monitor their use like mine; my monitoring is for budgeting reasons anyways not managing my use.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sure an inexperienced user can experience a distressing reaction when consuming something too potent, but the original article is about daily users.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • spywaregorilla 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Great. Are you an outlier or a typical user?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • DiggyJohnson 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Good question.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I'd also like to ask GP whether they think 1.5-3g a day is a low, moderate, or high quantity in a day, in their opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • civilitty 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Not the GP but in my experience that is moderate for a habitual user (i.e. "occasional" users do not fall on this scale). Averaging an eighth of an ounce of flower or a gram of concentrate every day would be considered high usage and anything over a quarter ounce flower or two grams concentrate a day would be extreme (at that point you're getting more than a gram of the psychoactives a day, let alone all the other cannabinoids).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • DiggyJohnson 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    As a heavy stoner in the midst of a quit, I'm very surprised by the numbers you gave. I would characterize 1.5-3g as "heavy smoker", 1/8 oz/day as extremely heavy smoker, and 1/4 oz/day as unbelievable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    To put it in monetary terms (error +/-50%) this is about $20/$40/$80 / day, respectfully.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't intend to change your opinion on this, just sharing my perspective.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • civilitty 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I think you're just out of your league ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm also surprised you think 1/4 oz a day is unbelievable. A smoker with a 2 pack a day habit can easily smoke through a 1/4 oz by just replacing half a 0.5g cigarette with cannabis (40 cigs x 0.5 gram => 10g cannabis + 10g tobacco). When I was using concentrates heavily and pressing my own rosin, I was easily using up to an ounce of flower on my worst days (with 15-25% yields by mass).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's definitely a very fuzzy and subjective scale. Personal experience plays a big part and I suspect heavy smokers anchor around their most common daily average - I suspect you smoked 1.5-3g a day?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • DiggyJohnson 10 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I smoked more than 3g a day, thats why I’m making these comments.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I don’t really appreciate the outta my league comment, but I’ll take it as a joke. I just am surprised to see these numbers normalized in a discussion. I think we’re just using different definitions. All good,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • undersuit 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I definitely think I'm smoking more than most people but I don't think I'm that extreme. Maybe 80th percentile, not 99th.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • officeplant 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It can vary pretty wildly. I've dialed back my consumption to an ounce of ~19% THC strains per two months for financial reasons. Which falls in line with some of my peer group (mid to late 30's friends). But I also live in a state where its still illegal recreationally so I don't have a shop around the corner yet. Meanwhile my friend in the same state with a medical card has a habit of grabbing their largest bong and pounding out 1 gram bowls sometimes consuming an ounce a week of 20-25% strains. Even if I had the money and access I doubt I could pull that off.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • delecti 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Where does tobacco come into it? I don't have to go out of my way to avoid buying weed with tobacco in it, it's simply not even an option available to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Also, I find it really obvious when I've gotten more high than usual, and I find it pretty easy to avoid doing that. I can't imagine that's that unusual.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • bobthepanda 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  At least where I live in the US (WA) legal weed goods are sold indicating mg of THC and CBD.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • bryans 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Your argument ignores nearly all of the factors involved with dosage -- most notably tolerance. Tolerance reduces perceived effectiveness, requiring increased dosage to achieve the desired psychological results. People regulate their consumption to that psychological effect, but the negative physical effects do not share the same curve.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Not to mention the vast difference between what it says on the label and what you may actually be consuming -- the testing and labeling processes are rather notorious for being inaccurate. Even for an avid smoker, it's virtually impossible to consume the exact appropriate dosage, if there even were such a thing. There's also social pressures which encourage people to consume larger amounts. The list goes on and on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  So, what you're suggesting as being the obvious negator of the expert opinions of medical professionals, simply has no foundation in reality.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • rr888 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > "Concentrated alcohol products cause vomiting in teenagers! It's not your parent's booze!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    When non-American parents allow their teenagers to drink usually its beer/wine only.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • blakebreeder 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hard to moderate consumption when you're doing dabs...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • PaulHoule 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I know a cannabis entrepreneur who makes high-quality gummies standardized to 150 mg THC which is, I think, too much. As a cannabis experienced user I find these make me feel hosed for six hours or so. It may or may not be a good time, but I'm certainly not going to do more than lay on my ass.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If I take half of one of those (75 mg) it is a strong intoxication, pretty consistently a good time, and I can go for a walk, do the dishes and otherwise be able to do most things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      The local health department had complained about very strong products being for sale and I've talked with this guy a few times about it. He'd say that people can always cut them in half but I'd say that a lot of people don't know what they are doing, will take the whole thing, and probably have a bad time when they could have had a good time and become repeat customers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Despite the unit economics being worse he's recently come out with a 75 mg product.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • _fat_santa 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I live in Colorado and they limit edibles to 10mg per piece/100mg per pack max. 150mg for a single gummy is a bit nuts though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As someone who smokes a good amount of weed, my recommendation to people it to always stick to just flower. I've tried it all, vaping, vaporizers (different than vaping, you're superheating flower rather than using an extract), edibles, and regular pot.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        From my personal experience, edibles last the longest but don't hit right away, takes about an hour for it to pass through to your liver and from there I noticed that it was a "low grade" high for a few hours.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Vaping is the polar opposite, the stuff hits you almost instantly. You also have to be careful and not puff to much, a monster hit will send you to another universe. I've also noticed that because of the high THC content (sometimes 90-100%) and virtually no CBD content, this is the easiest way to have a bad high. This also gives you the shortest high, seems to wear off quickest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Finally you have good ol' flower. This is what I usually smoke because it slots somewhere between vaping and edibles in terms of how high you get. I almost always smoke flower because I get consistent results. If I vape I might have a panic attack, if I have an edible it might last too long, but with plain weed I know how long I'm going to be up, what the experience will be, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Also this is complete pseudoscience but there's something that makes me feel better about smoking flower vs the other stuff. Vaping and all that other stuff is cool, but there's a certain safety in knowing the only modification a flower had was trimming the leaves away, no lab equipment, extractions, chemicals or any of that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • throwaway365435 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Personally I find edibles ideal. I love the 1-2 hour come up. I love knowing exactly how much I'm taking and what I'm getting myself into.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          With any form of smoking or vaping I have no idea how high I'm going to get. I hate the smoke, the coughing, the throat burning and just about everything else. I also hate going from sober to high in less that a minute, the come up is my favorite part.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm not trying to discount your opinion at all. I just found it fascinating to have such polar opposite experiences with the same thing. I also assumed smoking was so popular just because it was the only convenient way to use when it was illegal. Now that it's legal I just assumed most have formed a habit they haven't really considered or realized.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          EDIT: Also just for context, my range varies from 3mg - 15mg depending on if I'm going for a little buzz or completely stoned

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • yonaguska 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I always recommend vaping dry herb with vaporizers over smoking because you avoid most of the negative health effects of combustion. Obviously inhaling hot air is probably not good for your throat and tongue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't think it's very good for the lungs either.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And getting it directly from the flower means that I can cut it with high CBD flower depending on what experience I'm looking for.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • corrral 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              A lot of the concentrates used in edibles and vapes cut nearly everything but the THC, which may be part of the observed difference between those and flower. "Full spectrum" extracts that keep many of the other chemicals seem to hit very different for me—I don't get the stereotypical giggly-high effect on pure THC or THC+CBD, mostly just sleepy (which is often exactly what I want, so that's fine), but I do on full spectrum gummies. Could be psychosomatic, but the effect feels pretty different to me.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • mschuster91 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Also this is complete pseudoscience but there's something that makes me feel better about smoking flower vs the other stuff. Vaping and all that other stuff is cool, but there's a certain safety in knowing the only modification a flower had was trimming the leaves away, no lab equipment, extractions, chemicals or any of that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Honestly, that is common sense not pseudoscience. There has been way too much shady shit going on especially in vaping [1].


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • bitxbitxbitcoin 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Smoking flower has a bigger entourage effect than hitting a vape because whatever in the vape is a concentrated, processed version of the flower which has lost some cannabinoid or terpene content in the process.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • acchow 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I also have found vapes to have other adverse effects - some psychosis, and worsened short-term memory loss (compared to flower). Flower hits different.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • unethical_ban 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I don't know how people could regularly consume edibles that strong. Absolutely ridiculous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Edibles in low doses are great, but flower seems to be the most natural and safe way to consume it in a predictably moderate dose (vs. a huge dose from edibles, or wax, etc.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      As an aside, I tried vapes again recently and they did almost nothing for me. Compared to a year ago when I tried one and got put on my ass quickly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • aaaaaaaaata 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Easy — amateurs are burning out many of the lower temperature compounds during their extraction or cooking procedure.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Your 10mg is not the same as my 10mg.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • D13Fd 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I feel like you are omitting the fact that smoking causes cancer.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • tacheiordache 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          One smokes flower on a much lower magnitude. If you were to compare it to smoking cigarettes it would be 1 cigarette a day vs one pack a day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Second, stress causes cancer. If one is using just a little bit to wean off the stress that'd work out. Also pollution causes cancer. I don't see anyone banning cars, not even having some regulations for large diesel trucks which leave a humongous trail of smoke...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • jb1991 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Second, stress causes cancer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            That is quite a statement.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • aaaaaaaaata 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Stress › Inflammatory response › cancer
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • jb1991 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > The best quality studies have followed up many people for several years. They have found no evidence that those who are more stressed are more likely to get cancer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Some people wonder whether stress causes breast cancer. But overall, the evidence for this has been poor. And a large study of over 100,000 women in the UK in 2016 showed no consistent evidence between stress and breast cancer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                There are plenty of other articles around summarizing studies like this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • jb1991 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > no lab equipment, extractions, chemicals or any of that

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Except for widespread pesticides when growing flower in many places, often without much regulation.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • dfxm12 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Is this in the US? What state? I've only seen menus in NJ, IL, and most edibles are like 5-10mg per piece and seem to top out at 25mg per piece, but those tend to be big pieces that look like they are meant to be broken apart (like a Hershey bar).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think setting national standards around this would be just one benefit of legalizing recreational use at the federal level.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • colinmhayes 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I know that michigan has a law that allows for private transactions between medical smokers and licensed "caretakers". These caretakers are basically unregulated, so they can have a huge greenhouse operation with just a couple patients. People in Chicago drive to michigan to get the caretakers "extra" product.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • officeplant 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              In Colorado I saw gummies and candies ranging from 5 to 25mg per piece. Chocolate bars with up to 100MG per bar (the size of a typical chocolate bar). Single serving granola packs with THC honey in 50 and 75mg types. IIRC nothing stronger than 100mg per item was allowed but I was only passing through the state.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • yonaguska 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You can get gummies like this in IL, but just not from the dispensaries. Plenty of people make the drive from Michigan to sell to their friends here.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • fuzzer37 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Last time I went to the dispensary near me in Michigan, the budtender started off with the 100mg gummies when I said I was looking for edibles.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • PaulHoule 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • yieldcrv 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      mmm yeah I've seen those in Washington Square in NYC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      We don't have anything that high in California

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      also edibles are practically a different drug after being processed by the liver, we should study them completely separately

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      we should have high quality studies for specific use cases, just like corporate designer drugs that go through the FDA

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      but we currently have... whatever this is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • corrral 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Sweet Christ. 150mg? Goddamn, I hope my tolerance never gets that bad. That'd be so expensive. 1/10 that at once is enough to get me fucked up enough that, if I had taken more, I'd just be asleep.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • notamy 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Sweet Christ. 150mg? Goddamn, I hope my tolerance never gets that bad.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's a nightmare. I'm a medical cannabis patient, so unfortunately, proper symptom management means my usage ends up being quite high. My tolerance got so high that I barely felt anything from 350mg+ in edibles or RSO[0]. Taking a tolerance break from that is an awful experience; my psychiatrist actually had to prescribe benzos (Klonopin) to make it doable.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • genocidicbunny 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Back before CA legalized marijuana, thus putting in the limits on edibles, you could get some super-strong ones if you had a medical card. I recall a friend of mine buying 1500mg edibles that would put down most experienced smokers for two or three days. Said friend was going through one of those edibles per day, but those edibles also cost less than a 100mg edible does these days.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • tacheiordache 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          150mg is crazy. Im a causal smoker who tokes just a little bit and that not every day. 150mg would send me to ER
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • geekbird 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Seriously. I accidentally ate 1/4 of a 100mg THC chocolate bar, but it was not the right hybrid to keep me asleep, so I was in and out for hours. 25 mg is more than twice my preferred THC dose.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • aluminum96 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            150mg THC for a single edible is absolutely bonkers. If you only use ~1x per month, around 3mg is a common threshold dose, and 5mg can be rather strong. So that's 50x the naive threshhold dose!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • ginko 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > He'd say that people can always cut them in half

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              People who want a stronger buzz could always just take two..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • bitxbitxbitcoin 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The issue then becomes getting diabetes before getting high due to the crazy amounts of sugar in these edibles.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • zeroonetwothree 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I get a strong effect from 5mg already. I can’t imagine what 150mg would do to me
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • colordrops 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                THC tolerance makes a big difference. 5-10 is all I need now. When I used to smoke a lot I could take much larger doses with similar effects.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • redisman 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I believe it metabolizes differently. Even as an daily smoker/vaper at one point who never ate edibles, 10mg would get me very high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • ecpottinger 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I have a friend who stopped eating gummies for the same reason. They found the chocolate bars easier to break into the smaller pieces since they are grooved that way.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • aaaaaaaaata 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Gummies, being more sugar than fat, metabolize so much faster...not always desirable (who wants overpowering effects for 30min if they're eating an edible?).
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • newsclues 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Meanwhile in Canada the stores only sell 10mg and I need to eat a dozen to feel a buzz.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just give consumers choice

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • llIIllIIllIIl 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is messed up. Non-tolerant person dose for “stoned” would be like 20-30mg. I take 5 or 10 on a day i need to chill and i can feel it already.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • standardUser 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The way most Americans consume weed is basically a guaranteed overdose for anyone without a high tolerance. The regular "weed" we buy from dealers has been getting stronger for years because the consumers spending most of the money on weed demand it be strong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Once retail stores opened where I lived, I started buying weed with 10-15% THC instead of the standard 20-30%. It can feel like the difference between having a couple beers or 5 shots of tequila. Most of us can enjoy a few beers almost anytime, but rarely want to get shit-faced drunk. The black market, driven by heavy users, has been forcing us all to get far too high on weed because dosing a hit of weed at 25% THC is almost impossible. And we think this is normal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Most of the weed in retail stores is still too strong for me, but at least now I have options, which for me has been the biggest boon of legalization. I can finally enjoy weed again! But this same story plays out across many drugs, with consumers facing far more danger and uncertainty than is necessary because of our spectacularly ineffective drug laws.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • redisman 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I’m sorry but why don’t you just put less weed in if it’s too strong?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • y-c-o-m-b 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You'd think that would work, but it doesn't and I don't know why. Maybe because you still get the same % in the hit but it just doesn't last as long? For people that use vaporizers like mine, you also need to have a certain amount for the vaporizer to be effective otherwise you get nothing out of it which leads to inserting even more weed and suddenly you have more in your system than you meant to. The higher percentage stuff is an instant panic attack for me whereas the low percentage allows me to actually enjoy it. I have an extreme sensitivity to cannabis though, so this doesn't apply to everyone, but I'm also far from alone on this. I personally don't care if they sell high % concentrations as long as they make the lower concentrations available too for people like me. Unfortunately finding the low-dose stuff seems to be very difficult. I ended up growing my own low-dose strain though and it's been excellent so far.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • flictonic 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > For people that use vaporizers like mine, you also need to have a certain amount for the vaporizer to be effective otherwise you get nothing out of it

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You probably know this but just in case, some vapes are better for microdosing than others and will work with just a pinch.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Unfortunately finding the low-dose stuff seems to be very difficult.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What I've been doing is buying CBD flower online (usually <$75 per/ounce) and mixing it with a small amount of THC flower. I can pack my vape full, still get big clouds, but have a tame effect, the only downside is that the flavor isn't quite as good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • y-c-o-m-b 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The amount of flower doesn't seem to make much difference for me; it still produces the anxiety and panicky feeling, but doesn't last as long. For example I'll have 15 minutes of panic attacks instead of an hour. That's a great trick though, so I'll try it out with the CBD flower and see how it goes, thanks!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • aaaaaaaaata 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Check out Simply Crafted for getting this to your door safely at a great price.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • oaththrowaway 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Are you the owner or something?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • aaaaaaaaata 11 days ago

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Is this account's history that bad that I should've mentioned that in the negative? ha

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • oaththrowaway 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Just curious when I see a product recommendation here.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • asdff 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You can actually throw a wad of sterile cotton into your vape to fill the chamber. Pax even sells a half pack lid for their packs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              For your case you can also cut your high dose stuff with a cbd only strain right in your grinder to whatever ratio you want. The ground up weed would be no different at all from a low dose strain and certainly a lot more accessible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • standardUser 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That's just not something people who smoke pot very rarely are going to do.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • bergenty 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It’s kind of hard. As some one that used to smoke a lot but only smokes maybe once a year at this point, I have to put impossibly small amounts of pot in my bowl and it still gets me very high.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • standardUser 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Like I said, dosing becomes difficult because the drug is so potent. Even if you know you only want the smallest hit, it doesn't always work that way in practice (especially if you're not a frequent smoker and aren't familiar with using pipes and vapes, etc).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Plus, a lot of casual smokers think they're supposed to smoke the way they see in movies, or how they did in high school, which is usually not a single, carefully measure toke and then wait 20 minutes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • mtnGoat 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                FWIW, the idea that weed is getting "stronger" isn't necessarily true. There have been growers and strains that could get 25%+ since the 70s. Its just that those techniques are more widely known/shared and these higher numbers are easier to get to for more growers because of this shared knowledge.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • aaaaaaaaata 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The strongest weed isn't getting stronger.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Weed on average is getting stronger.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • mtnGoat 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This is a very correct assessment, well stated.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • hprotagonist 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You can green out, like notable NYT columnist maureen dowd did, but I don't recommend it. You can also do shots of everclear, but I don't recommend it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                There's trouble when the marketing and availability of legal cannabis in dispensaries is the equivalent to a situation where you go to a liquor store or grocery store and you are only able to buy 80+proof and the attitude is "well, consumers are smart, they'll just water it down at home", and there's probably some of that happening.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                That said, I've also seen a recent resurgence in THC/CBD mixed blends being advertised, specifically, like lawnmower beers are -- so certainly there's consumer desire for something that won't make you totally zooted, just kind of relaxed. Low-dose and mixed-dose gummies and edibles also seem very popular: 5mg THC/5mg CBD candies, for example.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hopefully the market notices.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • rglover 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > green out

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > lawnmower beers

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > totally zooted

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Oh I like you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I live in the Netherlands where there is a "coffeeshop" culture, with some of these coffeeshops having a connaisseur-like focus - as in, they sometimes even offer extremely exotic strains that you've never heard about and aren't even on Leafly etc yet, sourced from god knows where 10000 miles away, and then carefully and passionately grown and cured - and I can 100% guarantee you that people are not necessarily getting sick from more potent strains or over-the-top breeding as a direct correlation to potency. With good potent strains, cleanly grown, you simply naturally smoke less while still enjoying the strains unique effect and flavour profiles.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Are there people who get sick from being stupid and smoking half a dozen pure blunts in a row? For sure. I once almost hit two totally greened out Asian tourists who were vomiting onto the bicycle path in Amsterdam, and I've seen people just blacking out for a few seconds in the coffeeshops after smoking one blunt after another for hours on end. Teens in their endless, hormone-guided stupidity are probably getting sick from time to time too, and the higher potency very likely does not help, neither does having zero tolerance and not being advised about the strength at hand.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  However, I definitely beg to differ, and to not conclude that potency equals sickness. Stupidity or naivety does, and potency is definitely not a "public health risk". You probably wouldn't call Scotch a public health risk either simply for it being stronger than beer. The user determines the risk, education and controlled dispensing help mitigate it and even the most insane ultra-potent strain will not kill you, only deliver you a 1-2 hour lesson in personal responsibility.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't smoke much any more, but I still like to visit every new coffeeshop I see and haven't been at before, so I have probably seen and smoked over a hundred different strains by now. They all have more or less different effects, flavours, potential medical applications, benefits and disadvantages, but exactly nil of them have/had a "making sick" property by default. In fact, with most of them, you only have to inhale one or two puffs to immediately notice how and how strongly they will affect you, and the only way to ever get sick is by ignoring common sense and forcing it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  IF there is weed you can actually get dangerously sick from these days, it is unregulated and adulterated street weed, which is absolutely flooding Europe these days and people are consistently dying left and right from smoking it, but even that has nothing to do with the weed itself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • mettamage 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Fellow Dutchie here, I completely agree with this. When I learned to smoke weed, which was relatively late in my life (late twenties), I got sick of weed. I wondered why smoking just a quarter of a joint was already too much. Then I realized I just need between 1 to 4 inhales and call it a day. The high is relatively light and quite nice :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    > sourced from god knows where

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Well, that's the illegal part, isn't it? ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    It's always illegal until it lands in the coffeeshop! It's almost like a game of tag really. I wish Dutch politicians would properly legalize it, but the way I sometimes hear them talk about drugs is way too out of touch for that ever to happen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Mo3 12 days ago

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > sourced from god knows where

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      > Well, that's the illegal part, isn't it? ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ahh, I was referring to certain coffeeshops that carry rare strains that have been sourced from very remote places. But you're absolutely right as well of course. Not a fan of this setup either.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My home country, Germany, is apparently planning on fully legalising cannabis - if you thought Dutch politicians are out of touch with reality and cannabis, allow me to tell you that they seem like the most mentally stable and rational humans on earth compared to German politicians (maybe you've heard about the drug commissioner over there calling cannabis "broccoli" and explaining that "cannabis is illegal because its forbidden") - so you can probably imagine how absolutely insane it seems for them to be discussing and actually planning this.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have high hopes that neighbouring legalisation will push the Dutch, but realistically I think the worst part about all of this here is really only the lack of logic. Users aren't getting punished, police and prosecution don't have to deal with it, the coffeeshops pay taxes, and so on. That's already a day and night difference to our direct neighbours.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      When I moved here, it was like my brain errored out into a bootloop - I was standing outside in the park smoking a joint, and could not stop looking around and getting paranoid about cops showing up, then remembering it's okay and feeling like tons of weight and anxiety had been lifted, then 5 seconds later getting paranoid again, then remembering again, and so on. To this day, I sometimes feel a weird sense of unease and.. I guess you could call it internalised shame? Living in prohibition really sticks with you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • mettamage 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Holy hell, I'm sad to hear that :( I've seen it with Swedish people as well, when I was in Stockholm.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Whenever I smoke I feel as safe as drinking alcohol: i.e. nothing to fear from law enforcement if you don't go overboard with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I smoke once every 2 months or so, on average, 1 to 4 puffs, always in social settings. I'm 30+ years of age. My family has a history of drug addiction (all of them). What I've learned is that drugs can be healthily managed. If it couldn't I'd have gone down the gutter at the age of 28 since I started to experiment at 27.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        My addictions at the moment are: YouTube, WhatsApp (friends), coffee, HN (to some extent)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        So I'm not without my flaws, but the way society criminalizes drugs is beyond me. This is especially after having tried all the big names and realizing it's always a combination of: having a shitty life + having a social circle that heavily enables it + thinking you'll be fine and won't get addicted (I'm well aware of how all of them lull me into a false sense of security) + starting it at a very young age (all family members started around 14 years old with at least alcohol, less information means less protection).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        One other way for me to not get addicted to them is to realize two things: (1) how being sober is awesome and being able to not be anxious; (2) how to use techniques like: meditation, exercise, Wim Hof Method, intensely listening to music, and dreaming in order to more or less recreate all the drug experiences I've had.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Guess what I started at a young age? Gaming and learning a lot of stuff at school. No wonder I love watching edutainment stuff at YouTube to the point where it is unhealthy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          All good man, whenever I get these feelings now I just continue taking puffs and all is good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          My only police encounter was something to remember, too. I was sitting in the park at night (because I mostly work at night), smoking a doobie and settling in to go to bed soon, when suddenly a Politie car came shooting up the bicycle path straight towards me. You can probably imagine I almost shit my pants.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          They asked super nicely if I need any help because they got worried about me sitting there alone at night and wanted to check on my well-being.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No weed that night helped come to terms with the mindfuck.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > So I'm not without my flaws, but the way society criminalizes drugs is beyond me. This is especially after having tried all the big names and realizing it's always a combination of: having a shitty life + having a social circle that heavily enables it + thinking you'll be fine and won't get addicted (I'm well aware of how all of them lull me into a false sense of security) + starting it at a very young age (all family members started around 14 years old with at least alcohol, less information means less protection).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          EXACTLY this. If you ask me, the drug epidemic in the US is a perfect example, and when Americans argue about prohibition and regulation they almost always do it with a completely unconscious bias and not seeing the true reasons.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • mettamage 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > They asked super nicely if I need any help because they got worried about me sitting there alone at night and wanted to check on my well-being.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > when Americans argue about prohibition and regulation they almost always do it with a completely unconscious bias and not seeing the true reasons.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Haha, I've seen it with some Dutch people who never tried drugs but who have seen some people go under because of it. I get where they're coming from. I've seen it too. I've seen it too many times. And yet, here I am. It can be done in a healthy way. It took a very intelligent someone to show me how to do it responsibly. I'd have rejected such a showcase from almost anyone else, which I have done countless of times.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • michael1999 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Concentrated liquor is most definitely a health risk! Drinking a bottle of whiskey can kill you, while it is almost impossible to kill yourself with beer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Many places tax liquor more than beer, and restrict sales to approved liquor stores while beer and wine are sold broadly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • GordonS 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well, yes but most people drink a lesser amount of spirits than they would beer. I for one have never poured myself a pint of vodka, for example!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • chasd00 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          College kids will take 10 shots in a row of everclear on a dare then die. Same goes for drugs though. What is it about college kids and dares that get them killed? Like “I dare you to kill yourself!”, “ok, watch me!”.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • kelseyfrog 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            And some people don't. The story of me meeting my wife involves her roommate pouring a pint from the bottle of gin I brought as a gift - straight up to the brim.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • GordonS 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Sure, you kind examples to the contrary for just about anything. There are absolutely people who do things that are bad for their health, or even downright dangerous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But this behaviour is an outlier - even these people (typically young 'uns, often at college/uni) don't do this kind of thing on a daily basis.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • michael1999 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But this is the very heart of the problem. When the fatal dose is within the single package size, it's hard to argue it isn't a "risk". Why else is fentanyl so much more dangerous than other opioids? The dose makes the poison.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Stupidity is also a risk factor. Risks multiply. Product safety is often about managing tails, not the mode. You only need to die once.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Back to the original comment - the thing about weed is that it basically impossible to kill (or even directly injure) yourself with o/d. By that measure, even "super-weed" is much safer than whiskey.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • abxytg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Hyperemesis, as the article says, only effects some users. Clearly you are not one. I smoke every day but I can at least finish the article.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yeah.... I don't smoke every day, so that may be the reason you didn't get my point, anyway I'd bet a lot of money that the "some users" are exactly what I talked about.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that I am clearly not one of them. I, too, start showing symptoms of hyperemesis if I'm being stupid and smoke way too much, and I have never met or smoked with anyone who was resistant to it and had unlimited tolerance. Sure, there might definitely be a distinction between less and more sensitive to it, but saying "Hyperemesis effects only some users" is like saying only some users get blackout drunk from drinking alcohol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • AbortedLaunch 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The hyperemesis described is not an acute OD-like effect, but happens to some chronic users. It wanes when cannabis use ceases. Very hot baths and showers help suppressing the nausea.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Then I stand partly corrected, thank you. I think I have heard about this happening before, but read it was a very very rare occurrence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                With that in mind, in any case - I can still not understand the logic of associating this phenomenon with "teens getting sick".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Also, if you cannot handle smoking weed chronically, maybe you should just stop. Personal responsibility again..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > Very hot baths and showers help suppressing the nausea.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For whatever it's worth, that is also applicable to acute overdose.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • abxytg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Sorry for the cranky response, I actually agree with most of what you said aside from the small misunderstanding about hyperimesis vs acute od
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • nick__m 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Like i said in another post, where I linked the pubmed reference, the most effective way to suppress that nausea is to apply capsaicin cream on the abdomen but like you implied the only way to completely suppress it is abstinence.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • cwkoss 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    hyperemesis can occur acutely. source: myself as a dumb teenager, as well as several friends
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • toss1 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Yup. The concept in the article shows nothing but ignorance. As far as I know, weed has never produced an actual drug overdose.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This is literally something my cat learned by himself as a kitten. He was a stray, raised without a momcat, and very food insecure when he arrived. When we started feeding him full meals, he'd promptly eat as much as he could and about 10 minutes later barf it all out. He learned to not do that and not eat everything he could find on all plates very quickly.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Any not-completely-stupid person could do the same. Sheesh

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • tacheiordache 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > Yup. The concept in the article shows nothing but ignorance. As far as I know, weed has never produced an actual drug overdose.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  While I agree with you and am a casual user myself, there are some problems that need to be discussed. Underage smoking can stunt brain growth and we'd end up in a dumber society than what we already have. Just talking about it may have some positive effects.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • toss1 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Indeed, discussing things is good, but I generally think it's best to start with a basis of reasonable facts, and not a "this happens when people are foolish" (esp when "foolish" closely resembles eating 10 fast-food hamburgers in one sitting - yeah, you're going to get sick).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    And that getting sick from foolish use is pretty irrelevant to the brain growth effects you raise, which are truly far more important.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Why didn't they write about that instead?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • bitxbitxbitcoin 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Would love to see sources on deaths from unregulated weed in Europe. Are we talking the age old boogeyman of laced weed or something else?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Also, exotic strains you the average user has never heard about is a function of a growing market. A proper cannasseur would know where the strains (cultivars) are from - who bred them, what their lineage is, how they were grown, how long they were cured (not fermented), etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Completely agree with your point though that out of hundreds of strains that I have tried, nil have a “making sick” property by default. It only arises when users incorrectly scope the risk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If anyone reading this experiences cannabis hyperemesis syndrome, stuff like fresh air, chewing peppercorns, or a dose of CBD sublingually can help.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Very curious to hear more about the adulterated, unregulated, non coffee shop world over there! Thanks for your comment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Source - Recently Certified Ganjier.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • nick__m 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Your last paragraph is semiwrong. You can absolutely get sick with unadulterated cannabis but it's not dangerous just really unpleasant.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I speak from experience because I developed the cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. It happened when I switched to dry herb vaporization and the smoothness of the vapor made me unconsciously and insidiously increase the amount of cannabis I consumed per puff until I reach the ridiculous amount of .25g per puff. I know it was the syndrome and not some adulterated weed because applying capsaicin cream on my abdomen stopped the nausea.¹

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    When you are affected by that syndrome abstinence is the only permanent solution. So if someone like to indulge in cannabis, they should avoid to consume frequent concentrated doses.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I stand corrected.. so we’re back at personal responsibility again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Last I read this was a very rare phenomenon happening mostly in chronic users of concentrates. I still fail to see how that is valid reasoning for anything else in this article..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just read your comment again, but substitute cannabis with alcohol. You would be dead by now with these dosages, and if you go a step further the article would be correlating end stage liver disease with teens drinking a beer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I thought it was common sense that too much of anything is a bad idea. A rare phenomenon that mostly happens to the utter top quantile of chronic heavy users is absolutely invalid to use in that kind of generalization.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • nick__m 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I agree with most of your post.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        However, the article is about teens vaping concentrate that can contains as much as 90% THC. The title on HN is misleading, the article is not about teens smoking a few joints per week.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        To reuse your alcohol analogy, the article would be about teens drinking undiluted alcohol (94%) and the title on HN would be "Teens drinking beer are frequently found dead"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You're right, that one is way better.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • bryans 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Much like your original comment and despite having zero knowledge of the subject, you are arrogantly stringing together random words in an attempt to belittle people for being "stupid or naive." CHS is not rare, nor does it require extreme dosage. It affects approximately 7% of smokers.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > belittle people for being "stupid or naive." CHS is not rare, nor does it require extreme dosage. It affects approximately 7% of smokers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Allow me to quote directly from the article linked to by you,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Patients between the ages of 18-49 years who reported smoking marijuana at least 20 days per month. Among 2127 patients approached for participation, 155 met inclusion criteria as smoking 20 or more days per month. Among those surveyed, 32.9% (95% CI, 25.5-40.3%) met our criteria for having experienced CHS

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This puts the initial prevalence at around 2.3%, not 7%, but the dataset is also very small. Also, the dataset is likely biased because it consists of patients already presenting to the ER. There is no further mention as to why they presented to the emergency room either.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Patients were classified as experiencing a phenomenon consistent with CHS if they reported smoking marijuana at least 20 days per month and also rated 'hot showers' as five or more on the ten-point symptom relief method Likert scale for nausea and vomiting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            These conditions are very broad and symptoms of CHS match closely the symptoms of regular overdose, and most of the relief methods are also directly applicable to regular overdoses.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I would be extremely surprised if the actual prevalence is any higher than 0.5-1% of consumers, and in any case this has pretty much only proven my point now. I may have little knowledge on some rare edge-case condition, but at least I know how statistics work.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            For whatever it's worth, the prevalence of CHS seems to be lower than the prevalence of allergic reactions to alcohol.......

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • bryans 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You're now making inflammatory claims about how you understand statistics better than NYU scientists and professors. Yet, all you've actually done is invent some numbers in your head and call them statistics, while also redefining bias. You even conveniently left out the rest of the researchers' quote which shows your premise is utter nonsense:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              "If this is extractable to the general population, approximately 2.75 million (2.13-3.38 million) Americans may suffer annually from a phenomenon similar to CHS."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              There are approximately 35,000,000 regular smokers. 2.75m / 35m is 7.8%.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > Also, the dataset is likely biased because it consists of patients already presenting to the ER.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              That's not how bias works. In fact, you're introducing your own concocted bias, because you've limited the dataset to the ER visits and not the population. Your 2.3% number only represents the number of undiagnosed vomiting cases that could be attributed to CHS, which has no relevance to the number of smokers who experience vomiting. You don't have any understanding of statistics.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              > These conditions are very broad and symptoms of CHS match closely the symptoms of regular overdose, and most of the relief methods are also directly applicable to regular overdoses.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You're now suggesting that these situations aren't actually marjiuana-related at all, but instead some other drug overdose that the ER staff totally missed. So, not only do you purport to understand statistics better than everyone else, but your medical expertise apparently surpasses that of ER doctors. Your trolling is outrageous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                My friend, I am trusting academia, but I also know how flawed it can be. If anyone has a bias right now, it seems to be you and the bias is towards always trusting academic research without thinking for yourself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > "If this is extractable to the general population, approximately 2.75 million (2.13-3.38 million) Americans may suffer annually from a phenomenon similar to CHS."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Well, it is most definitely not extractable, that's why they also wrote "if". The dataset is abysmally small, biased and the filters/conditions applied not nearly strict or valid enough to come to these conclusions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                They are also, at exactly this point, completely contradicting their own research and rationale, as well as your claims:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 2127 patients approached for participation, 155 met inclusion criteria as smoking 20 or more days per month.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2127 patients that are already in the ER, for various possible reasons. Invalid dataset.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > 155 met inclusion criteria as smoking 20 or more days per month. Among those surveyed, 32.9% (95% CI, 25.5-40.3%) met our criteria for having experienced CHS

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This would mean, by their and/or your logic:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - that out of a "general population" dataset, 7% smoke >= 20 days a month, which on a side note absolutely conflicts with other statistics on weed consumption

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - even if that was the case, there is absolutely no way to infer from ER patients back to the general population

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                - even if that was a valid line of thinking, it would imply that: Out of 35 million cannabis smokers, there are 23 million that smoke weed more than 20 days a month (right..), and since they claim that 33% of them seem to have experienced CHS, this would imply that around 7.5 million of 35 million smokers have potentially experienced CHS.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You know what that is? 21% of all cannabis consumers. I don't think so. Their logic is flawed. ER patients are not a neutral slice of the population. You have absolutely no way of inferring back to the general population without knowing how and how much the dataset is skewed. This also shows very clearly that even if the dataset is at least somewhat valid, their pre-selection and applied conditions are absolutely bogus and not suitable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > In fact, you're introducing your own concocted bias, because you've limited the dataset to the ER visits and not the population.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The dataset IS limited to a group of patients in the ER, you knucklehead. That's what was used to generate the dataset in the first place. A subset of people they found in an ER. Exclusively. That's a bias that almost certainly invalidates the whole calculation. You also have no way of inferring back to the population from it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > You're now suggesting that these situations aren't actually marjiuana-related at all, but instead some other drug overdose that the ER staff totally missed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Because I wrote "overdose", and not "THC overdose" or "cannabis overdose"? Sorry man, but.. if anyone is trolling here, it must be you.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • bryans 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Everything you've said is contradictory to reality, and you are displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of science and statistics. I won't engage with your increasingly childish antics, but I will make one last attempt at making you recognize your mistakes, in the very unlikely event that you're willing to learn from them.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > 2127 patients that are already in the ER, for various possible reasons. Invalid dataset.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You keep mistakenly using this number for all of your calculations, but 2,127 is completely irrelevant to anything at all, because it includes 1,972 people who didn't participate. This should be obvious, but people who don't participate in a study aren't part of the study -- whereas what you're suggesting is the exact opposite of scientific methodology. The actual dataset is 155 participants, of whom 51 experienced CHS symptoms within the previous 6 months and 104 didn't.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > This would mean, by their and/or your logic: that out of a "general population" dataset, 7% smoke >= 20 days a month, which on a side note absolutely conflicts with other statistics on weed consumption [...] even if that was a valid line of thinking, it would imply that: Out of 35 million cannabis smokers, there are 23 million that smoke weed more than 20 days a month [...] You know what that is? 21% of all cannabis consumers. I don't think so. Their logic is flawed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  All of the available data[1] says that the number of daily marijuana smokers is between 6-8% of the total population, and between 15-25% of the marijuana smoking population. So, their logic[2] was both very accurate and entirely debunks all of your claims -- making it rather despicable that you're asserting yourself as intellectually superior to multiple teams of scientists.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  > The dataset IS limited to a group of patients in the ER, you knucklehead. That's what was used to generate the dataset in the first place. A subset of people they found in an ER. Exclusively. That's a bias that almost certainly invalidates the whole calculation. You also have no way of inferring back to the population from it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  What's especially ridiculous about these assertions (besides the childishness), is that you don't even realize you're arguing against yourself. If it were strictly CHS-presenting patients, then that sample would be only those sick enough to require medical attention, meaning the actual number of CHS cases would be higher across the entire population, as most CHS cases don't actually lead to hospitalizations. That number can't magically be less. It could only be higher.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But it's specifically not CHS-presenting patients. It's an inclusion of 155 daily smokers from a random sampling of 2,127 approached (versus ~28,000 total) visitors to a specific location over the course of 71 days. That it's an ER doesn't actually matter, because the reporting was based on 6 months of usage, meaning their visit doesn't necessarily have anything to do with marijuana or vomiting -- and in fact, anyone presenting with abdominal pain or vomiting was excluded[3] from the study.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [1] "But the number of Americans who use cannabis heavily is soaring. In 2006, about 3 million Americans reported using the drug at least 300 times a year, the standard for daily use. By 2017, that number had increased to 8 million—approaching the 12 million Americans who drank every day. Put another way, only one in 15 drinkers consumed alcohol daily; about one in five marijuana users used cannabis that often."


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [2] "In this survey cohort of ED patients, 32.9% of self-reported frequent marijuana users met our definition of CHS. Extrapolating on a reported 8.364 million near-daily or daily marijuana smokers in the United States in 2014, we estimate between 2,130,000 to 3,380,000 individuals have suffered from CHS symptoms in the United States. This prevalence estimation was generated using data up to 2014, suggesting the true prevalence of CHS may be higher today given current trends in increased marijuana usage."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  [3] "This convenience sample included all patients between the ages of 18 and 49 years able to consent who did not currently complain of nausea, vomiting or abdominal pain. Patients presenting with nausea, vomiting or abdominal pain were excluded to avoid confounding conditions and, thus, an overestimate of CHS prevalence."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Mo3 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Alright, enough trolling for now.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • bryans 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You don't have any understanding of what CHS is or how it works, so it's entirely inappropriate for you to be making claims about how anyone who suffers from it must be "stupid or naive." From behaviors, to how strains work, to how people get sick, absolutely none of what you said has any foundation in reality.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Listen, if you start to suffer from conditions like this after heavy chronic usage, you simply stop using, or you are, in fact, stupid. It's not that hard. It's also not nearly as common as this article tries to propagate, so my statements still stand and I am absolutely certain 98-99% of "sickness" is not because of a rare condition that mostly only happens to the top quantile of chronic and/or concentrate users. If teens actually start to experience continuous adverse reactions after years of gigantic chronic consumption they have bigger problems than weed.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • bryans 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Your commentary isn't appropriate for HN, isn't based on any actual knowledge of the subject, and the very premise is based on information you made up in your head. CHS isn't rare and doesn't require extreme dosage, and most people don't get diagnosed for years, if ever.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • bitxbitxbitcoin 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Would love to see sources on deaths from unregulated weed. Are we talking the age old boogeyman of laced weed or something else?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • TillE 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Synthetic cannabinoids ("spice") are a genuine threat which have killed people, but they only exist because of a stupid legal system. Sometimes media reports will misleadingly conflate these designer drugs with natural cannabis.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              You are confusing unregulated weed with laced weed. That's not really a boogeyman now is it, and I'd be the last person to propagate myths to badmouth cannabis lol. Laced weed has indeed become a serious problem in western Europe.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • tokai 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Neve heard of that. Provide a source.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • Mo3 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Have you heard about the Google search engine?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • tokai 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    That's not how it works here.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • mandmandam 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            There's quite a lot of subtle, and not so subtle slant in this article. If you didn't know the background and the other side of the story, you 'd walk away with a very warped impression of the scale and scope of this issue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            > Christina Caron is a reporter for the Well section at The New York Times, covering mental health and the intersection of culture and health care.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Weird - because I've gone back over years of her articles and she doesn't talk about the biggest issues affecting mental health. It's all fluff. Yet she found the time to do three veiled hit-pieces on cannabis so far this year.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If you ever wondered why the impressionable don't talk about systemic racism, violence, propaganda, exploitation and poverty as being major mental health issues, instead blaming cannabis (a great boon to mental health, overall!), or blaming themselves, it's because writers like this are given such a major platform.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • unethical_ban 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              While I don't think anything in the article seems outright wrong - cannabis for teenagers and its increasing potency are things to be concerned about for parents and caretakers - I think it's fair to point out that the world is on fire and social media is also terrible for ~~young~~ all mental health.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • oblib 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Teens have always done stupid shit. They'll drink till they puke at every party they go to until they grow up and get tired of it, or they become adult alcoholics.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              When I was a teen I watched my friends having contest to see who could take the biggest bong hits and "press" them the longest without coughing. I always declined to participate in those contests. I was well known to be a "lightweight", but that moniker never bothered me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Those who called me that were the same kids who'd chug whiskey they stole from their parents and then hug toilets while puking until they passed out on the bathroom floor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Edibles are akin to taking pills. You don't know how hard they're going to hit you until they do, and if it's too hard you're stuck with it until it wears off.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Vapes are akin to big bong hits. When I was a teen I saw teens puke after taking a few too many giant bong hits. They were having bong hit competitions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It's very easy to regulate the effects of weed by taking a tiny puff and putting it down for a few minutes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So, it's not that weed is more potent. It's easy to sip a bit of whiskey too, but you can get just as puking drunk guzzling beer as slamming shots.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • actfrench 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                When I lived in NYC almost every single one of my friends regularly smoked pot and it seemed pretty harmless to me except I’d occasionally have a friend who never really addressed their anxiety because pot was their go-to so that anxiety just got worse and worse. Years later, I joined Al-Anon because my partner was struggling with alcoholism and I was really surprised to see so many people there because a partner or child was addicted to pot and the very real emotional pain and problems they were facing from this. Their loved ones were basically checked out of their life and relationships.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • redisman 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It’s a terrible anxiety medicine as probably the most common side effect is anxiety.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • AnthonBerg 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I’ve come to see cannabis in the way that it buries anxiety, and this buried anxiety then goes sour. Festers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There’s also a sense that something about cannabis turns people’s imagination against themselves. Long-term use. At first it seems to free up the imagination and enhance the sense of meaningful experiences and emotion. Then that slowly turns to fog and people tend towards these little micro-jumps to conclusions, conclusions which are trite and shallow. I speak from experience btw. (My own!) I found the world to be stupid. People were stupid. It was just my lack of imagination and impeded generation of solutions to life, which I imagined to apply to everything but me. It’s funny and super lame and quite sad imo.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Seen it happen time and time again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • trixie_ 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Same here and with many friends. It goes from time slowing down, to a few years of fun times, then anxiety, at which point many people stop doing it. Though I've seen people keep going and develop full scale paranoia, thinking that everything is a conspiracy.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • mtnGoat 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      i agree, its a terrible treatment for anxiety. ive had friends ask me for strain recommendations to help treat anxiety, my advice is always "none of them".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • dcolkitt 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Despite this, high-concentration cannabis is a huge public health risk. The deleterious effects from smoking comes from inhaling the smoldering organic compounds in dried plant material. That health impact scales with the volume of smoke inhaled.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If you increase the concentration of THC, users can achieve equivalent levels of intoxication with substantially less smoke inhalation. 30 years ago, THC concentrations were 5% or less. Today, legal cannabis tends to average around 25%. That's an 80% reduction in smoke-related damage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • whalesalad 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Keep in mind there are a dozen different ways to consume cannabis that do not involve combustion of plant material.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Teens are getting zooted because they are using concentrate pens, which are essentially e-cigarrette's but replace PG/VG with distillate.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • alexk307 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I’ve heard this many times on the internet but I cannot find one source that verifies that folks were smoking 5% THC cannabis in 1980 in the United States. It’s simply not true…and trying to measure it now in a 30 year old sample will show that most of it has oxidized into other cannabinoids.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • akhmatova 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Despite this, high-concentration cannabis is a huge public health risk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          From the math in the rest of your post, I think you meant to say that "Low-concentration cannabis is a significant health risk". (I don't think the term "huge" applies in any case to a substance whose intake, after all, is optional).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • jtode 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            [an 80% reduction in smoke-related damage] [is a huge public health risk]


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • hestefisk 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Let alone the mental health risk from permanent THC-induced psychosis.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • hestefisk 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Downvote? Seriously, hn? It’s a fact that hashish intake can cause psychosis.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • GordonS 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It is absolutely not a fact. There are a slew of papers on both sides of the argument, so it's definitely not settled.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  People with mental health issues are more likely to use cannabis because it helps them with those issues. And people with mental health issues are of course at higher risk of developing psychosis, so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • mikestew 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Saying it twice doesn't make it true. Just one URI, that's all anyone asks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • hestefisk 12 days ago

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      “Results: Consistent evidence, both from observational and experimental studies, has confirmed the important role of cannabis use in the initiation and persistence of psychotic disorders. The size of the effect is related to the extent of cannabis use, with greater risk for early cannabis use and use of high-potency varieties and synthetic cannabinoids. Accumulating evidence suggests that frequent cannabis use also increases the risk for mania as well as for suicide.”

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • mikestew 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Thanks, I'll add that, as well as your other links, to the reading list for the evening.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • hestefisk 12 days ago

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        One of many. I have a close family member who developed cannabis-induced psychotic disorder in teenage years. It is a well known phenomenon. I agree that it can be a chicken-and-egg question in some cases but it doesn’t change the fact that cannabis is generally bad for your mind.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • hestefisk 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Another one in the Lancet: “The ready availability of high potency cannabis in south London might have resulted in a greater proportion of first onset psychosis cases being attributed to cannabis use than in previous studies.”
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • alexk307 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Enlighten us with the facts if that’s the case!
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • ryandvm 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            You have any legitimate studies on this or are you just regurgitating 70 year old "reefer madness" propaganda?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • cuteboy19 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Why is this one drug so special that it cannot possibly cause madness? I don't understand the downs either
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • omniglottal 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • kromem 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It's a serious problem that we're getting rid of the CBD in products.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          CBD is a natural antipsychotic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          There's some very promising research on it alone as a treatment for schizophrenia even:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And a large body of research on how it reduces the potential psychotic side effects of THC.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          But go into a dispensary and ask for a 1:1 or even a 1:2 THC:CBD product, and they will look at you like you have two heads.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The plant naturally contains an antagonistic for the psychotic effects, we're selecting to eliminate that antagonistic from the products, and then have a surprised Pikachu face when an increasing number of users have psychotic effects.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It's almost impossible to get cannabis products with a nice mix of CBD alongside THC unless explicitly asking for it and possibly needing to hit up multiple dispensaries to find it. That's really not ideal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And all too often ratio products dilute the THC per volume according to the ratio, which further discourages recreational users from selecting for the ratio products. If the THC only product has 10mg per serving, the 1:1 and 1:2 should also have 10mg THC per serving, with an additional 10 or 20mg CBD alongside it. Not 5mg or 3.3mg THC.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          This is a merchandising issue.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • efields 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Louder, louder for the people in the back.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The market controlling genetics in plant propagation has consistently lead to favoring bigger, more uniform, more shelf-stable, and this has always lead to less nutrition, over-consumption, and more waste.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The same thing is happening with BOTH drug cannabis and industrial (CBD) hemp. The low threshold of .3% THC for hemp to be legal for any grower in the US is an arbitrary ass number, so by breeding to it who knows what’s getting lost in the genetic dustbin.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Growing your own is liberating, if not still legally dubious in the US. Repealing the prohibition against growing would likely get more people inquiring about their cannabis, just like when you go to a farmers market and enjoy substantially better quality vegetables. You can learn what went into it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Of course the dispensary business is on the verge of becoming an entrenched lobby, and would likely rebuff any effort to legalize growing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • monetus 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              To back up your point with another health anecdote - epilepsy forces me to take an acute preventative for seizures that cause a delirium, drugs like qulipta or a cbd heavy strain/blend of marijuana. The cbd is a necessary ingredient, it isn't medical for me otherwise.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • hericium 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Those high concentration THC extracts cause huge serotonin spikes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm on medicinal 19% THC flowers (190mg daily) and I'm doing my best to make it "extended release"[1] by baking edibles[2] instead of taking huge bong hits.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Daily irritation of the reward system is a no-no.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • d82nsjk9 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                How did you switch from smoking to edibles? Or was it easy for you?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • hericium 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Haven't switched completely but limited it greatly around the time I quit cigarettes (not nicotine) few years ago.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • elil17 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Over the past century, Americans have switched from eating whole foods containing many nutrients in one package to eating processed foods where each nutrient is extracted from a different plant and then recombined. The resulting food is dirt cheap and incredibly appetizing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Something equivalent is happening in the cannabis industry. Cannabis is a mixture of THC and various other compounds which potentiate it. Without those other compounds, the THC doesn't have the same psychoactive effects. Cannabis producers are growing high THC breeds, extracting the THC, and then adding in then extracting the other compounds from other breeds, other foods, or synthetic sources. The result: dirt cheap drugs that are more enticing to consumers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • fleddr 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Just adding to the pile of warnings...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  About 20 years ago, in the Netherlands, two people from my small town. Both were heavy users. They would visit a coffee shop (our term for a weed shop) twice a day and stay for some 2 hours or longer each time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Dutch weed was already known to be strong back then, but I have no idea how strong. Probably still less strong compared to what is described in the article. I would estimate they smoked up to 4 full joints each day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Both developed a psychosis.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  One would start random fights with people. I saw him get arrested and in the police car kept bumping his own head to the door with full force. He lost his job and ultimately ended up in a mental facility. He had regular paranoia attacks about being followed and being hacked, and would ask random people to check his phone. He's been bouncing between the mental facility, the police and back again ever since. Already at the age of 25, he was a lost cause, as he had ruined every single aspect of his life. The truly sad part is that life goes on in this miserable state probably for several decades.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As for prior conditions: I had known him for a long while before his detour. Had a steady job, full of life energy, never any aggression, no criminal record, clean as can be.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The other guy started to attend the same prostitute, daily, whom he actually believed to be Madonna. The vast majority of his time though he spent driving between two specific dutch cities as a way to discharge excess electricity he believed to be in his car.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I once was in his home where he picked up one of his mom's books. It was a cheesy doctor romance story. He starts reading out loud from the book but rather than literally reading the text, somehow this text got warped and transformed into his mind, and the output was some bizarre prophecy. As if he was effortlessly producing a brand new Bible on the spot. One of the strangest things I've ever seen anyone do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I don't know what happened to him, we lost touch.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  So yes, getting "sick" doesn't even begin to describe what weed can do when not taking care of dosage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • tacheiordache 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I smoke casually just a tiny bit. I liken it to taking a shot. That's enough to get a slight boost of creativity. I hate getting drunk or high but just toking works wonders for me. Been doing this for 20 years and it hasn't impacted my life negatively at all. I actually stopped drinking altogether because of some eczema but I'll never stop indulging in pot this lifetime. I use a $20 bag for about a couple of months
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • jaqalopes 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Quantity, it's said, has a quality all its own.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Anyone who wants to look at their personal unproblematic weed use and conclude that it's totally, universally impossible for today's weed concentrates to be a problem for anyone really isn't thinking straight. There is a difference between concentrates and flower. Once you're habitually using something that's 50%+ THC, "normal" weed just doesn't cut it anymore. You need to start upping the ante just to feel high at all. People call this "tolerance" but IMO that word obscures what's actually happening. Namely, you can only put so many feel-good chemicals in the human brain before you hit diminishing returns. Trying to keep the good times rolling may cause you to blow past your body's ability to metabolize the chemicals away without consequences. I've been a stoner for 12+ years and have had to learn my limits the hard way. I really feel for the girl in this article, and anyone else who's struggling with their weed use in a culture that repeatedly insists there is "no unsafe dose."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • trixie_ 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        A lot of people have the exact same story. First few times, time slows down. Next few years it's a good time, then after that you have a good chance of developing an anxiety disorder from weed. At that point people usually stop doing it because it doesn't get any better.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        If only some research was done on the long term affects before legalizing it. Instead now we're doing a population wide experiment.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • bitwize 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Now that weed has been largely destigmatized if not universally decriminalized, it's time for parents to step up and teach their kids responsible use, including non-use before a certain age. We do this with other recreational drugs like alcohol. Perhaps we can gradually introduce them to higher and higher potencies, like French parents do with wine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • elif 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I wish journalists would learn to use obvious disambiguating terms like 'hash' and 'dabs' instead of needlessly conjuring up baseless fear about perfectly healthy flower use by lumping cannabinoid drugs into one umbrella term.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • snarfy 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Can't read the article. I'm guessing it's about this:


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • Hellion 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This article makes some incredible leaps. Marijuana addiction is an under-recognized problem, but the implication that a kid killed himself because he had a weed addiction is incredibly misleading.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > After several stays at mental hospitals, the doctors determined that Johnny had a severe case of THC abuse, Ms. Stack said. He was prescribed an anti-psychotic medication, which helped — but then he stopped taking it. In 2019, Johnny died after jumping from a six-story building. He was 19. A few days before his death, Ms. Stack said, Johnny had apologized to her, saying that weed had ruined his mind and his life, adding, “I’m sorry, and I love you.”

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • hirvi74 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I would imagine if Johnny didn't have mental health issues in the first place, he wouldn't have abused THC in the first place.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • parkingrift 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  People should be highly skeptical of distillates, vape cartridges, waxes, and edibles. This is a new frontier and largely unregulated. You never truly know what you're getting. Even at "regulated" dispensaries the QC is garbage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Dry herb vaporizing is the optimal way to consume. You can pick the strain and set the exact temperature with far less ambiguity. You can even control the supply by growing it yourself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  It is changing the federal schedule is the best course of action. We are not benefitting by flying blind, and consumption won't go down simply because people would prefer it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • mpfundstein 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I agree. We observe this in the Netherlands for quite a while already. The solution? Mix it with CBD flower. Unfortunatenly most coffee shops don't agree and still sell only high THC flowers with 0% cbd...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • rgifford 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Can't help but think of Mac Miller's Tiny Desk performance of his song 2009 [1]. Mac started using weed heavily in his teens to cope with the stress of touring. 2009 was a big year for him: two major mixtapes, the cusp of fame and his intro to harder drugs. The song is celebration and acceptance and resignation, and totally unapologetic. He died of an OD two months after this performance at the age of 26.


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • officeplant 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "teens are getting sick vaping the strongest shit we've ever created"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Well no shit. I'm an adult that has smoked weed for 15 years now and even in my late 30's I can't handle more than a few hits of concentrated wax/oils.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        How is this any different from 15 year olds sneaking their parents everclear to make some strong punch?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Is it the drugs fault or the fact that we suck at keeping substances out of the hands of minors.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • alex504 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Its the drugs fault.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If the drug causes negative effects on a large subset of the people who use them, that is a problem with the drug.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • officeplant 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            People who use them illegally and without caution in this case.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Realistically its a lack of drug education. It isn't hard to understand high powered versions of a substance will be much stronger in effect. We see the same issue with people chugging down energy drinks with 350mg+ of caffeine and complaining of the end result.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            At some point people have to learn.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • diebeforei485 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Just like with Juul, we're seeing bright colored flavored products (highly processed/refined) designed to hook kids.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Legalize it (just don't saddle it with heavy taxes California-style) and regulate it. 90% products should not so be easy to come by.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • caymanjim 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Edibles are a real problem. The potency is completely unpredictable. Even the ones from supposedly-reputable medical providers are inconsistent at best. Some are total duds, some are far too potent for even experienced users. I'm sure some manufacturers are using some amount of science and engineering in an attempt to standardize, but I don't believe any of it is truly pharmaceutical-grade calibrated, or even close.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            If we're going to continue this charade of pretending it's medicine, then the FDA should be involved to verify the claims and improve quality assurance for dosage.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • GordonS 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm a medical user in the UK, which had a highly regulated medical system. Potency of medical-grade THC oils here are completely consistent.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • yieldcrv 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > If we're going to continue this charade of pretending it's medicine

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I consider them fun! I think edibles have their own audience, and the "experienced users" think their tolerance is in one place because of the low quality crap they simply used a lot off the street, but its really in a totally different place. (With other drugs, people often overdose for the same reason like they use a scale that was relevant 5 years ago and then OD because their tolerance changed and the drug concentration changed.)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Edibles are also basically a different drug after it gets processed by the liver, I think some additional consumer protection should be done

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I am also 100% in agreement that FDA-level studies should exist, and that it is pathetic we just have random experiences from random jurisdictions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • Der_Einzige 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I know some founders of 10K+ star GitHub projects who are also low-key massive stoners. They write lots of the code for their libraries stoned.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Most of the people here don't realize that the majority of the cognitive impairment from weed is from the oxygen deprivation and nasty chemicals in smoke. Vaping or eating it has almost no impact on cognitive function once you have some level of tolerance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                It basically turns into less nasty cigarettes for habitual users. You probably don't know when a lot of people are high around you, even if you think you do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • Reason077 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I dunno. I remember the stuff making me feel very sick when I tried it in my teens in the 1990s. Kind of put me off it for life, even though I've got plenty of friends who are still into it.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • ellopoppit 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Is there any doubt that alcohol, or sugar for that matter, makes far more people (teens especially) sick than cannabis?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  In fact, cannabis is an excellent treatment for alcohol hangovers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • AndrewVos 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There is no doubt. This article is BS. One hundred percent bad faith.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Maybe they should think to mention the millions of people on cannabis prescriptions who have had massive benefits.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • unethical_ban 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Did they say alcohol and sugar aren't health risks? Are you calling them liars for pointing out the struggles of teenagers who are taking huge amounts of mind-altering substances? Did they say Cannabis doesn't have health benefits for people who take it for prescribed reasons? Did the article itself advocate or give voice to advocates of "re-prohibition" outright?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • AndrewVos 8 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I am saying they have an agenda.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • vkou 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "Vodka cocktails are bad for you" doesn't logically refute "Weed can be bad for you."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Both can be (and almost certainly are) true at the same time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • ellopoppit 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        And yet the lesser of the two evils is the one which remains federally illegal. The harm caused by this prohibition far outweighs the harm of some people feeling sick for a few hours after consuming too much cannabis.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Articles like this which only focus on negatives of cannabis help perpetuate the even greater harms of cannabis prohibition.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • vkou 11 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Prohibiton is next to over.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Articles like this which only focus on negatives of cannabis help perpetuate the even greater harms of cannabis prohibition.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Knee-jerking against articles like this is perpetuate harm by keeping people in the dark about the very real drawbacks of the drug. You can't make an informed decision about using it without actually know the pros and cons.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • ellopoppit 10 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Prohibiton is next to over.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Tell that to the people who continue to be put in prison every day for a plant that is far less harmful than sugar and alcohol

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            >Knee-jerking against articles like this is perpetuate harm by keeping people in the dark about the very real drawbacks of the drug. You can't make an informed decision about using it without actually know the pros and cons.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Even worse than that, you can't make an informed decision about cannabis when the government, scientists, and the media have been lying to everyone for decades, implicitly and explicitly, in telling them that cannabis is more harmful, addictive, and sickening than sugar and alcohol.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Correcting those lies and adding relative comparative context is not "knee-jerking", its promoting science which can save lives.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Why does that upset you so greatly? I'm not saying people shouldnt be informed about how/how not to use cannabis

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • asdff 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm currently doing a read of Manufactured Consent and I can't help but imagine these articles are the harbingers of really stupid regulations "for the children." Juul was banned today for the children in related news, after years of these sorts of pearl clutching headlines. All the more motivation to continue growing my own removed from potential overreach or all the overtaxation.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • radicalriddler 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        This is interesting, last time I was back home one of my mates was telling me that one of my other mates was throwing up violently after smoking weed these days. He's 23 now, been smoking everyday since 15. He was one of those guys who'd say weed had no real negatives.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Nice to see an article on it. Definitely needs more awareness.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • zach_garwood 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          > Each morning, she found students washing their bongs in the communal bathroom at 8 a.m. to prepare for their “morning smoke.”

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I guess kids are just more sanitary these days, but I would go like a month between cleaning my bongs in college. And I certainly wasn't waking up at such an early hour as 8am.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • escanda 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I might be biased since I have seen this before, but, the mother who lost her son should be ashamed of not doing enough and then pretend that the general public shall clap. Most of the time in suicide people those around them don't do shit. As harsh as it gets.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • randomopining 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              A little bit once in awhile for creativity, or at a concert. Like 1-3 puffs max. I have no clue how these people do strong stuff daily or multiple times a week. Life must just be a big nebulous cloud.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • eesmith 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The full title is "Teens Are Getting Sick From Products With High THC Levels", and NOT "weed" as the HN title uses. Eg:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > This was not your average weed. The oil and waxes she bought from dealers were typically about 90 percent THC, the psychoactive component in marijuana.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                referred to later as "THC concentrates".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                BTW, the authorities have been saying for decades that level of THC in weed is much higher than it used to be, I believe as a way to convince older adults that their personal experience with cannabis is not trustworthy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For example, "Many people who have voted for legalization thought they were talking about the marijuana of the 1960s to 1980s when the THC content was less than 2%." from .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                But as points out, "incomplete government data encourages a pervasive pot myth." ... "it's difficult if not impossible to classify average potency in a way that can be tracked meaningfully over time. So while there's almost certainly more super-strong pot available today—if only by the fact that it's now legal to buy in multiple states—it doesn't mean that all marijuana is ultra-potent today, which is how the narrative about potency is often framed."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > But there is little evidence to suggest these specific levels are somehow safer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Likely because of the illegality of carrying out those tests.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                > A recent study found that people who used marijuana had a greater likelihood of suicidal ideation, plan and attempt than those who did not use the drug at all.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                As the underlying paper at points out, "Future research is needed to examine the increase in suicidality and to determine whether it is cannabis use or overlapping risk factors that increase risks for both.".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Eg, people experiencing suicidal ideation could be self-medicating with marijuana, and w/o that option would self-medicate with alcohol and have a higher risk of suicide.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • Havoc 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >90 percent THC

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And here I thought I was being bold ordering 5% CBD oils...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  • dionian 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    This guy doesn't sound like his problem was weed's potency. I don't follow this article's connection between the two.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    • mythrwy 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Only teens it doesn't affect adults? Or is this just "think of the kids"?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Maursault 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Weed is harmless, except for teens. Weed has always hurt teens. The hurt is subtle. It tends to steal their future and their ability to support themselves or contribute to society. But this really isn't about weed. It's about bad parents.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • SwanRonson 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          How are “good parents” expected to find this low-odor, marker-sized object without deeply invading their child’s privacy or ruining their bond and becoming “bad parents”?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Gone are the days of finding a smelly bong in the back of the closet, this could be in their pocket or purse at all times.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The side effects of weed could be found in every sober teen. Hungrier, more emotional, more distant from parents, etc. Are good parents supposed to treat their children like criminals until they no longer show signs of puberty?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • Maursault 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            For one, Good parents don't submit their children to unreasonable searches. Also, if the parenting is good, the search is unnecessary, because there is nothing illicit to find. I'm not a parent, and I realize it is very hard to do well, but my understanding is it has to do with the right attention at the right times, mostly just being there, but also not shying away from correcting discipline. Parents that become their childrens' best friends and never correctly discipline them for fear of their hatred only produces narcissistic children. I think the family unit must be relied upon, separation and sacrifice of duties, with the mother the nurturer and the father the "whip," (i do not advocate for corporal punishment, whip is metaphore) usually kids turn out ok. When roles are mixed or when no one wants to do the hard work of being the bad cop is when kids learn they can get away with murder.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            the finest day i ever had was when i learned to cry on demand

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        • status200 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I love cannabis, but i acknowledge that almost everyone who does dabs / resin / shatter / etc eventually turns into a zombie. As with everything, as soon as you concentrate the active ingredient(s), you can get way off course.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          • cosmiccatnap 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            The NYTimes has a bad habit of hyperbole like this but in a world where 200 proof alcohol exists and prescription fentanyl is easily accessible it feels pretty well...boomer for lack of a better phrase.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Weed isn't an issue and it never has been.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            • loldk 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              • steve76 12 days ago
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                • mrtweetyhack 12 days ago